Bridging the religious divides: "details, details...&am

[modernmystic]

I'm curious to hear people's ideas on specific ways that we can all "get over ourselves" despite major differences in cosmology.

I just completed The Twelfth Insight, and the theme of people joining hands across many faiths was especially poignant for me in light of some recent experiences. One that comes to mind is an online correspondence with an old friend. This was a very revealing discussion in which it came out that she and I share a lot of common ground in our political and philosophical views (as we knew), but hit some major sticking points when it came to religious cosmology, particularly her fervent belief in an impending Apocalypse.

Another major point of contention arose when I suggested that people of all faiths can work together toward peace and social justice by finding a common thread of spirituality, but without giving up their distinct beliefs. She associated this with a "false religion" of Humanism or Enlightened Cosmopolitanism. She called this part of the Antichrist, saying that the notion of religious unity lurks behind many foreign military interventions in which one nation imposes its own political, cultural and religious models on another without regard to those people's right to choose their own way. She criticized my message of interfaith tolerance as disingenuous, saying that I am just as judgmental of her beliefs--and therefore a hypocrite, because I won't even admit that I think I'm right and want others to come around to my point of view. While there is some truth to her accusation (to be honest, she really struck a nerve) I still don't understand her conviction that only Christians can fully grasp the deeper truths of the human spirit.

Just for context, I am open to the wisdom of many traditions, but when it comes to Christianity I am a strict red-letter type. That is to say, I agree with just about everything that Jesus said, and that's it. Everything else, from the entire Old Testament to Revelation, Paul's sermons, the psalms and hymns and so on, I take with a grain of salt. There is just one exception to my Red Letter approach: I cannot abide the notion that God is male. This brings me to another sticking point when communicating with almost all people who follow the Western religious traditions of Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

Whenever someone refers to God as "He" it always raises my hackles. Reading some other posts in these forums gave me pause to laugh at myself... one moment, I would feel totally uplifted at other people's amazing ideas and experiences, and the next I'd be saying to myself "Ooh, I can't stand it when people say God is a guy!" This isn't just a matter of holding on to a certain dogma for me; I have had many experiences in which I felt a loving, enveloping presence, but it "feels" like it has male and female aspects, although the strongest Presence has been a more female energy of wisdom which I associate with the Spirit of Earth. What if someone else has had their own experiences in which God "felt" male? People can squabble over scriptural dogma to no end, but when spirituality becomes more geared to an immanent experience of the Divine, as all the world's mystical traditions emphasize, what do we do with our differences?

I guess I'm outlining two dilemmas here. First is my desire to have an open heart in communicating with people who have a scripture-based belief in things like the Apocalypse, or the wrongness of homosexuality, which seem so horrible to me that my first impulse is to shut down in scorn. I'm not sure if there's any way to reconcile this wide a gap in belief, and in the case of the old friend I mentioned, at this point I'm just resigned to redirecting our conversations back to the issues where there seems to be room for mutual learning.

The second dilemma relates to people who have their own immanent, mystical experiences, yet arrive at different conclusions than I have. Is it just that we all necessarily filter something authentic through the imperfect lens of our belief systems? Or perhaps people are connecting with distinct facets of one Divine consciousness: archetypes that are valid unto themselves, but not the whole of the thing. There may be a Presence that "feels" male which I have not been open enough to fully experience and another that "feels" more androgynous yet Earthy and kinda female, which I can speak to with more certainty.

I don't exactly have a point here... just wanted to voice these ruminations and see where it leads.
_________________
Handbook for the Modern Mystic is a free online resource for people who are exploring beyond the five-sensory model of human existence. Read on at www.modernmystic.com

[sister goshe]

I have learned that emotions run high when your core values are questioned. Really high sometimes. It takes a certain level of strength to be able to even have these conversations.

For this very reason I don't think Mr. Redfield's Twelfth Insight will be as widely accepted as the Celestine Prophecy was. I really think a lot of people aren't ready to be part of a template group. I haven't experienced the coming together of a template group myself, so maybe I'm not quite ready either.

I have found that personally I enjoy learning about other religions even though I consider myself a strong and faithful Christian. I'm convinced everyone has their own path and each individual does what he or she needs to do when they need to do it.

Being judgmental isn't bad... it's what God teaches the Jews to do the entire old testament. Christians are often told to separate themselves from non-believers - how can you do this without judging... but this is not FINAL judgement, it's just a personal judgement. God is the only one with the FINAL judgment.

Truly there are plenty of people that I judge I don't want to associate with - people who swear a lot, people who are into porn and drink heavily or do lots of drugs - and that's because I've been there and I don't want to be involved with that lifestyle anymore. I believe there are wicked people in every religion.

On the other hand many people who one Christian may consider a non-believer, I often consider beautifully religious and introspective. There are really good people in every religion.

It frustrates me when people through the word "hypocrite" around... give me a break, everyone's trying to figure their thoughts out... not admitting out loud to your desires for someone else to experience the same God experience that has made you so happy isn't hypocritical... it's respectful. It seems your old friend was trying to pull your energy down by throwing an accusatory dagger.

Just for your information, I believe that God, Heavenly Father, is in fact male, but that we also have a Heavenly Mother who is shielded and protected by God. If we are spirit CHILDREN, well, it takes two to tango, right? You can take that or leave it.

I appreciate your openness!
I too have finished the 12th...
_________________
Sister G0$he

[bardictiger]

[coachroseann]

I was so inspired by the Twelfth Insight, and especially the idea of template groups. I have been involved for many years with interfaith projects. I was recently part of a ceremony in which people from many religions/faiths all poured a cup of water into one large sacred bowl, symbolizing the unity and Oneness. It was so profound and moving. I do believe that the more people that come together in a template group to understand each other more deeplys, the more we will lovingly accept each other with compassion and insight. I agree with the book, that we need to focus on our common experience of the Presence of God. That is really what religion is pointing to, isn't it?

[starsapphire]

I tend to think that referring to, "God" as a he not a she comes from the old world programming. My thoughts today are that much of what was written was more about symbology. Perhaps phrases like , "Father, Mother, Son".
Father or God representing the mind, ideas, creative force even, then Mother could be the heart, feeling nature, the emotional side of each one of us, the Son being the expression of the Two? A man and woman have a child, that child becomes the expression of both, not just one. Even in psychology today they will tell you that males are more mental and females more of the emotional nature which is why they are needed for growth. But as the human journey of evolution moves forward we see more of the integration in both male and female, Men more nurturing, women more knowledgable etc. The tide is turning so that in this New Age one will see more equality, I think, more of a balancing between the two.

I'm not sure that I feel that their is any such thing as a 12th insight or a 13th or anything like that. As I have become more aware, which isn't allot, but my perspectives look farther and farther or deeper and deeper. So, I believe today that for as many humans their are here in the physical world and in the spiritual world also, that's how many spiritual insights one might see? Are they all true or wise, or of a higher content? They are to them, and try and shake loose their beliefs or insights, not so easy which is why we have re-incarnation, life's lessons which turns us inside out many times, challenges us on all levels for this reason. I think back years ago and the things I felt to be absolutely true and I gag?? Should we have template groups? I tend to feel, again, this comes from a time when even Jesus said, "Stay amongst your own kind".
I could never get that part and for a long time felt it to be stifling or separative but, today I see more of it's reasoning power. People coming together of "Like Mind". Does this mean they all agree on everything? "No", how boring would that be? However, their vibrations of thought, beliefs, etc are similar in nature. Many of my good friends that I traveled with for maybe 20 some years on, what appeared to be, the same spiritual path have decided to go back to organized religion? I really was taken back by this for a long time but, now I see that so much differently. Two steps forward, one step back, comfort zones, less struggling, no real conflict as God will take care of everything, just believe etc? They are all wonderful people and I know this by their demonstration, however, their came a time when I had to pull away because their belief system was no longer" compatible" to mine and vice versa. It's all good and it's all fine, we came to a fork in the road and I went one way and they went another way and One Day we will meet up again wiser and much more humble I'm sure.

[Inedible]

[johan9]