Soul, Spirit, Mind, Body Defined

[MM2]

Hello,

The Celestine Prophecy is responsible for programming a lot of my belief system but I noticed after some reflection that my definitions for the soul, spirit, mind,body and what they are/how they function together, tie in wonderfully with the Insights.

The funny thing I realized, is that James never really defines these things in their entirety or at least does not focus on them in the CP. I believe that these terms are fundamental to a belief system and that it seems almost impossible to talk about and try to convey each others beliefs to one another without first establishing a common playing field as to what these 4 things are and how they work together to form reality.


So my question(s) are:

"1.) What do the terms soul, spirit, mind, body mean? (ie. is the soul different from spirit? how?)

2.) How can you define them so that you can explain how they function together without contradiction? (if these things are different, how do their differences allow them to interact? How do the characteristics of each thing work together with the characteristics of the others? For example, if the soul is a "higher piece of "you"" then does it interact with the body by by storing itself somewhere in it? If the soul is different from mind, where is the mind located in comparison to the soul and does the flow through the mind affect the flow through the soul assuming we define the soul as being a thing capable of flowing?)

4.) How to explain them so that they are consistent with CP's Insights, the truths we see in other belief systems, and exemplifies the importance of energy. (If our definitions are consistent, then we should be able to use them to verify some of the truths in CP and in fact all systems of beliefs, including science (which is a solid belief system because it is so consistent and logical).

5.) Can we figure out a base set of definitions for these things so as to establish a consistent idea of what spirituality itself is. What is it?

These questions are loaded. I hope that James can come and answer some of these and relate them back to CP.
_________________
Pessimists find difficulty in every opportunity. Optimists find opportunity in every difficulty.

[one under god]

[truth]

Hi MM2,

Thank you for the questions, because they made me sit down and work out my own theory. I do love a good ponder!

Cheers for now,
Pat

[michellepetkus]

Hello MM2,

I really don't know how to answer your questions and I kind of think you would be hard pressed to find a true consensus on the definitions as everyone kind of has their own ideas but from my viewpoint I am aware of 2 selves within me. One self is rather fallible and the other seems to have all the answers. I am distinctly aware of the different selves but really couldn't tell you what they exactly are except to say I have a higher self and an ego body. The higher self I perceive as my true self spirit/soul (I always sort of viewed those two as the same thing) The ego body I haven't figured that one out yet. But the mind I recently read a very interesting view on it that really resonated with me and that was that our mind is really just a radio receiver picking up information from the air. So rather than our minds actually creating thought our minds simply process the thoughts and feelings and distributes them through the body. An interesting concept to ponder none the less. And who knows, with the way science is making such strides maybe they will define these terms one day.

Love,
Michelle

[Theressa]

Hi MM2,

"1.) What do the terms soul, spirit, mind, body mean? (ie. is the soul different from spirit? how?)

Soul is the part that lives through many lives. Mind is the instrument that interprets my environment through the senses. My body is the vehicle for this life time to house my soul and mind. It is fit for purpose for this life time so that my soul can get the most learning out of this life time. Spirit is the connection of all the souls like a house of air each room is separate but the air is connected.



2.) How can you define them so that you can explain how they function together without contradiction? (if these things are different, how do their differences allow them to interact? How do the characteristics of each thing work together with the characteristics of the others? For example, if the soul is a "higher piece of "you"" then does it interact with the body by by storing itself somewhere in it? If the soul is different from mind, where is the mind located in comparison to the soul and does the flow through the mind affect the flow through the soul assuming we define the soul as being a thing capable of flowing?)

My body and my mind are tools to help my soul expand using this life time through experience. My soul has a blue print that is flexible but, it needs the body and mind to experience the blue print and thus expand. The soul is helped in its endevour by access to Spirits help.

Spirit/whole also expands as each soul expands and evolves.

What does have me uncertain that if the universe is evolving experimentally how can it advise me? I guess it knows what it wants to do but it needs individual souls to carry out the plan.

Its like my clients came to me to help them action plan (Spirit) BUT, the client acted on the plan (soul)

At all times the soul can ask to be reminded of the blue print by asking spiritual helpers to remind them.

4.) How to explain them so that they are consistent with CP's Insights, the truths we see in other belief systems, and exemplifies the importance of energy. (If our definitions are consistent, then we should be able to use them to verify some of the truths in CP and in fact all systems of beliefs, including science (which is a solid belief system because it is so consistent and logical).

How to explain all this so it fits with the insights.

1 We are discovering again that we live in a deeply mysterious world, full of sudden coincidences and synchronistic encounters that seem destined.

We are remembering that we can access the blue print and many clues are shown to us to help us to carry out the plan experimentally.

2 As more of us awaken to this mystery, we will create a completely new worldview - redefining the universe as energetic and sacred.



As more of us begin to notice the clues and help with the blueprint/plan the action plan will begin to be lived out experimentally consciously with awareness.

3 We will discover that everything around us, all matter, consists of and stems from a divine energy that we are beginning to see and understand.

We become more and more aware of the connectivity and see how each action effects and impacts the experimentally lived plan.


4 From this perspective, we can see that humans have always felt insecure and disconnected from this sacred source, and have tried to take energy by dominating each other. This struggle is responsible for all human conflict.

We can see that humans have lost their footing and become unsure of the way just like a lorry driver losing his map in a far away land. Thus, they have tried to ask for help from the wrong source, from others who do not know the way. Instead of asking spiritual helpers and trusting ones own inner systems and feelings. When people are lost and scared they fight and things stay in chaos. They forget they are a soul here having a human experience and get caught up in day to day survival instead of engaging with the blue print and plan.

They are meant to feel lost so they are alerted to begin to follow the plan. The mind when scared can stop interpreting the clues and start to see scary possibilies which effect the body and thus, consequentially the body, soul and ultimately the evolution of the whole/spirit.

5 The only solution is to cultivate a personal reconnection with the divine, a mystical transformation that fills us with unlimited energy and love, extends our perception of beauty, and lifts us into a Higher-Self Awareness.


There comes a time when one has had so much pain from knocking into things and met so many dead ends one begins to wonder and maybe ask questions. Why am I lost? This is when they begin to awaken and be shown signs and see the clues once more.

E.g God why is my life such a mess?

At this point they become aware once more that there is away up from rock bottom. Then awareness results once more. One starts to see their impact and live out the blue print once more.

Now the blue print was always flexible and so it may go off course slightly but, there are warning systems such as feelings and pain in place to stop it going far too way out.

6 In this awareness, we can release our own pattern of controlling, and discover a specific truth, a mission, we are here to share that helps evolve humanity toward this new level of reality.

We can see that things fall into place when we don't struggle and act out of awareness. We stop trying to make others behave in certain ways and start to keep in line with our own blue print and listen to our own clues. We have faith that spirit has safety guards so nothing will go too far off.

The beauty is also that others can waken up by seeing examples of better ways to do things once they've hit rock bottom.

Infact another can be the answered prayer or route out of the chaos one is in.

7 In pursuit of this mission, we can discover an inner intuition that shows us where to go and what to do, and if we make only positive interpretations, brings a flow of coincidences that opens the doors for our mission to unfold.

Yes we see the way spirit make sure that the blue print goes in a general direction just like a primary school ensures that the christmas production doesn't go too far off course if one child dilly dallies.

8 When enough of us enter this evolutionary flow, always giving energy to the higher-self of everyone we meet, we will build a new culture where our bodies evolve to ever higher levels of energy and perception.


When we become very conscious of the clues and our actions and words and always seeing others are learning and will never go too far off the path forever. As we act in a way to experience the blue print experimentally things will advance.


9 In this way, we participate in the long journey of evolution from the Big Bang to life's ultimate goal: to energize our bodies, generation by generation, until we walk into a heaven we can finally see.

We are on a journey and we had a blue print/plan. This plan may take many life times, many bodies and minds as tools for each soul to expand and ultimately for the many souls (spirit) to expand.

5.) Can we figure out a base set of definitions for these things so as to establish a consistent idea of what spirituality itself is. What is it?

Spirituality is understanding how each links together and that there is a plan we are all part of conscious or unconscious.


These questions are loaded. I hope that James can come and answer some of these and relate them back to CP.

These questions have been a good frame for me to filter my thoughts through.

Thank you!

Love
Theressa
[/b]

[GeneHrsy]

Here are definitions i use in my mind.

Soul: This term has been used as a synonym for spirit. But I find the more widely used definition, and the one that i use, is that it is the total of all parts of the human condition, IE. spirit-body-mind.

Spirit: This generally refers to the energy that animates our bodies. It is the seat of consciousness, and to what we all return when the body expires. Through out time, people have realized that spirit can and does exist in this world with out the body. Spirit people are part of nearly every culture on earth. Some cultures honor them, while others shun their existence; they are feared by most because of a lack of understanding. Spirit can not be dead. They are alive, and without the body. Love, Life Force, Chi Energy, and others are all words that have been used to describe the energy of spirit. Spirit is invulnerable and in so being goes on forever.

Mind: Some might say this is obvious, yet it is the study of many scholars who still struggle for absolution in definition. Mind is the moderator between spirit and body. The balance between the energy and the physical is the domain of the mind. It is not the thoughts that it may think; it is not the brain where we believe it resides. It is more closely related to consciousness, awareness, being. Mind must be freed of illusion to allow spirit to heal the body. Adversely, it is mind that can block the natural flow of energy to and through the body, IE. anger, frustration, greed, ego, fear, and so on. Mind is the tool we use to find our way back to the Source of Life Energy, where we simply accept All Being. Mind is the seat of the will that governs our behavior in this environment.

Body: The flesh and blood and bone we inhabit on earth. Body is actually a trap if it is not seen for what it is; a temporary state of being and a tool of the spirit. The belief that body is the source of life, or the soul/totality of existence can lead to very much pain and suffering. This belief cuts the body off from the healing power that spirit offers. The greatest fear in humanity is the fear of returning to spirit when the body ceases. Particularly in Western society, body becomes God; the only thing worth saving, the only thing that matters. The body is to be cherished as the vessel of the sacred energy that is you, but not idolized as the center of all being. Those that do not release the physical world upon the cessation of the body remain in a state of fear that has been called hell. I believe that heaven and hell are states of mind in this earth, and that how we live our life in the body determines how the world relates to us; that we control our own fate. At some point, we will all have to release the physical. Some learn to do this before the body expires, and we call them Enlightened or Saved. Truly, these have merely remembered where they come from.


I am so glad that you asked these questions! They really do need clear definition... and we are still working on it!

Peace
Thank You
Namaste
Gene
_________________
It Just Keeps Getting Better
Time is the measurement of humanity's Awakening to the True nature of Now.
Ever wonder what would happen if the whole world farted, then smiled at the same time??

[MM2]

GeneHrsy!

I resonate strongly with the definitions you conveyed. Thank you for posting them. After a long period of time pondering, it seems like these definitions hold the most potential at accurately explaining and connecting the phenomena in our reality. I believe that the definitions can be refined a little farther however:

[Bolt]

Here's the way I see it, and the way that makes the most sense to me.

The Soul is us. It's not an actual part of the body, it's not manipulated by our energy, and it does not conform to any scientific principal that we have found yet. Our soul is our very being. Everything alive has one and they move on to the next life instantly when this one has ceased.

The Spirit is the energy which is in everything, from our own bodies, to the plants we grow, to the rocks we kick. Everything has a form of spirit/energy within it, and this energy can be manipulated by the energy around it. If there is anger or sadness surrounding your plants, they will whither and die. If there is love and happiness in your home, plants will flourish and thrive. The more control you have over your spirit, the better your life will be, and the better you will the surrounding energies feel, enhancing their existence. Ghosts and wondering spirits are not wondering souls, but imprints that your spirit left before passing on. These imprints will vanish when the energies sustaining them change for the better or worse, as the case may be. If someone died of murder, their spirit may imprint the chilling energies of their demise on surrounding elements. If someone died after leading a fulfilled life, and accomplishing their soul's goal, there will be an imprint of happiness left behind.

The Mind is simply our thoughts and consciousness, an integral part of the brain. while the brain is the machine that governs the body's actions, the mind is the entity running that machine, like we run computers. They do all the work, but we tell them what work needs to be done. In this manner, you could say that the mind is our body's connection with our soul, allowing us to retain control over how we live.

The Body is exactly as science has described it, because that is the single piece of this puzzle that we can see and identify. The body is the vessel that holds our Soul. The body is also the conduit for our spirit energy, just as everything else in existence is. It holds our soul, which has no exact residence, and our brain, which maintains the earlier mentioned connection with the soul through the mind.

However we label these parts, they remain the way they are. You can exchange the words soul and spirit as many times as you like, as both are simply words and both have similar definitions in the language they were conceived. If you wish to place my definition of the soul onto the spirit, and spirit onto the soul, go ahead, I won't mind, and neither will they.

[MM2]

Hmmm,

I appreciate your post Bolt. I am little concerned, however, at the lack of incorporation of other peoples posts in the posts of this topic. It is true that I asked for peoples definitions of Mind, Body, Spirit and Soul, but isn't it childish and inconsiderate to simply post and not read or incorporate what others have said in this post already?

It is great to see everyone share their views, but I strongly wanted to emphasis the similarities between our views and to post questions that we could apply our own personal definitions to. I believe it may be a strong sign of selfishness to post only our believes without considering or thinking about others beliefs as well. The Celestine Vision is about uniting under a common language in which we can expound upon our own truths and expand the insights with them, but that does not seem to be happening with the type of forum culture we have here. The discussion in this topic may be a good example of what is limiting the dialog in most of the forums.

Thank you for aligning your definitions with the insights Bolt. Its good to see but in one of your last paragraphs you said:

"Humans have tried to bring the life of a free spirit to earth"

From your initial paragraphs, it seemed like you were talking about spirit like it was energy, but in this sentence you seem to be speaking of spirit like it is an entity, or a part that resides in the soul. These seem like two different ways of talking about spirit which isn't really consistent. It seems like you are talking about 2 different things. Not very clear. I don't think it would make a good definition for what the spirit is.
_________________
Pessimists find difficulty in every opportunity. Optimists find opportunity in every difficulty.

[Bolt]

I'm sorry for misleading you, but it was getting a bit taxing toward the end, and I may have mis-worded that sentence. What I basically meant was that humans have been trying to create a world of free spirit (as energy) on Earth, where they can float free of the daily dredges of life.

As for incorporating the other posts into my own, I actually did read every other post, and it helped me to shape my opinions as they are written in my post. If you examine them and some of the others, you will see great similarities among the differences. These are not coincidence, they are my way of using other beliefs to further my own.

Again, I am sorry for misleading you.

[MM2]

Hey Bolt,

There is no need to apologize. I am not concerned about apologies unless an action or thought is directed with negative intention where negativity is defined in my language and hopefully in the Celestine Communities language as the lowering of ones energy level for the soul reason of lowering that persons energy level with the aim of creating pain and destruction in that creatures being.

I did not get the impression that you were miss-leading me with any intent to lower my energy level or change my spirit in ways that do not align with the values upheld by the Celestine Vision or the Charter of Human Rights so I am not sure if your apology is necessarily helpful in clarifying what we are talking about in regards to Mind, Body, Spirit and Soul.

What you said in your second paragraph about incorporating others beliefs is interesting to me and hits precisely on the head of what I had hoped this topic would begin generating. It is very much true that your beliefs probably incorporate others but that can be said with practically all if not all the beliefs and ideas in your mind. That said, why do people reference to one another when writing books or sharing information? Its so that we can all establish a base of reliable and meaning information. I was hoping this topic could expose the similarities between all of our definitions and views on the Mind Body Spirit and Soul so that we could begin building that foundation so that we can break into a higher level of communication and discovery. We could then perhaps unite over this foundation and use it to expand upon the Celestine Vision and the Insights to which it is based.

When you do not explicitly show or reference how your beliefs and ideas relate to others, then there really isn't any real communication or dialog going on in the forum. Its really just a spatter of text on the screen like an encyclopedia article, or like a dictionary. A forum can serve this function, but it has the much more powerful capability of opening up discussion on spatterings of text so that we can elaborate and explore them.

It would be nice and probably beneficial for the forum if in every post following the initial one, there was a quote or direct reference from someone elses post that the poster would elaborate on and try to incorporate into their own definitions or beliefs. What you said Bolt has many elements of what others said. I think many people in the CV community feel it is wrong to examine and explore other peoples beliefs and to question them and compare them. When people do, it is viewed up as negative which is complete hypocrisy to our human nature. It should be the intent behind the judgments that we should scrutinize and make "positive" or "negative" associations with.

We all seem to agree that 3 or 4 entities seem to exist. We are able to begin this discussion only because we can unit over this agreement and explore them further. In this topic we are simply continuing the same process just to a greater extent.
_________________
Pessimists find difficulty in every opportunity. Optimists find opportunity in every difficulty.

[michellepetkus]

MM2,

You asked very direct questions of people and got very direct answers. If you wanted a dialogue with people's responses you could have responded back but you only did to one and then the other one only to insult.

[truth]

Hi Michelle,

You are absolutely right. The joy of life I gained from being part of this forum was due to being able to post what I needed to post just when I needed to post and you guys were always there to help me on my way... whether I liked it at the time or not! A couple of things I learnt along the way was that we use our own mud to try to control others when we feel insecure.

You will note that MM2 didn't offer own definitions at the beginning of this topic, rather asked for definitions of others, which showed lack of confidence triggering a need to control, also the need for rules and regulations, again, a need to control borne of lack of confidence. Then we get to the insults like 'childish and inconsiderate', which showed MM2 to be childish and inconsiderate when writing those words, again, in a vain attempt to regain control. One thing to be borne in mind here and that is that those insults bore no relation to the other posters whatsoever... purely a need to control on the part of the writer.

Saying that, when we did get to read MM2's definitions, they provided much food for thought - which when read in from the perspective of good stuff to offer the World is incredibly valuable... I will definitely be reading them again... when the time is right for me of course!

MM2 I feel that you've closed yourself off from our intuitive sense of being loved. Don't worry - I only recognised mine for what it is last month! I can only define it as being, not only at peace with the whole of life, but wrapped in the most luxuriously soft comforter ever imaginable. I guess it's the sense that's triggered when we lay in our mothers arms as a newborn... I don't know, but the only way I can define it is a sense of being wholly loved... our mind, body, spirit and soul at peace with the whole.

The reason I found it? Was using the safety of the forum to bring myself back to life... I couldn't have done it on my own and that is what is truly exciting for me about forums such as this, because it allows people to bring their true selves to life, the more that do that, the better the world will be for all.

You have too much to offer to have to bother with controls - they only bring frustration. Please find the confidence to be yourself, you are so worth it.

Love,
Pat

[Bolt]

[michellepetkus]

Dear Bolt,

And belittling yourself by apologizing for something you didn't do is a classic example of a poor me reaction to an intimidator. Your approach feels good to you but does not do MM2 any favors because you enable him to continue to be comfortable in his behavior. By you making yourself diminuitive you maintain his status quo of feeling like he is in the power position. Which by your own admission is your way of trying to control a controllers behavior so no matter if it is passive or aggressive it is still a control drama.

Everything we do in life has a cause and an effect. The reason/cause for why we act the way we do is to keep the status quo so we can maintain our personal comfort level. When people do not act the way we expect them to that really just makes us uncomfortable. In reaction to the discomfort we either hide, cry, bully, or badger to get the others to comply with living at our comfort level. It is human nature to do so and we all do it whether we are conscious of it or not. But that is the key. To change our behavior we need to become conscious of the behaviors that do not render us the results we were looking for.

Case in point. MM2 expects people to converse on the forum in a particular way. His particular way. That is all fine and good but where the negative effects come in is when he starts to expect and demand that people act his way and when they don't he lashes out. But people are not living in his head so they have no clue what his rules are unless he states them out loud. I and everyone else who responded to his post by answering his questions apparently did not follow his rules and this made him mad. There was nothing rude or intentionally harmful about anyone's behavior in their replies yet MM2 chose to think there was. That is his reality not ours. So for me or anyone to apologize for not acting as he expected reinforces his illusion of thinking that people should automatically know how he wants people to respond to him. This is simply not going to happen because people are not out to break his rules. They simply have no clue he has any rules in the first place.

Which is why I posted what I did. As much as the truth can sometimes be hard to hear being straight forward with someone is sometimes the only way to get through. MM2 is angry over his perception of our behavior. This is an ongoing issue with him. But his expectations of us are unrealistic especially if he does not set up some ground rules at the start of his threads. If he did it may garner some of the results he was looking for so he doesn't have to get himself all upset when people don't respond the way he wishes. But even that being said, as long as he continues to live his life expecting people to act in very specific ways he will probably always find himself disappointed. But that is no one elses fault but his own. Because not one person on here was trying to make him mad. We were trying to have a conversation. It was he who chose to get mad because we did not respond the Way he expected or wanted. This is the truth of the matter and nothing more and I simply chose to point it out. Whether that follows your rules on how I should express my thoughts is really not the issue. I think the bigger issue for you is to figure out why you think taking the blame for something you didn't do is the answer. Do you walk on eggshells around everyone to keep the status quo?

Michelle