Control Dramas Challenge 1

[truth]

Hi MM2,

I have really been racking my brains on this one. You see I want peace and I believe that although compromise has worked in bringing about some sort of peace in the past, it is now time for real peace, whereby everyone lives their lives to their full potential. The question for me, and it is one that you have made me struggle with, is how to enable that to happen.

In real life I am me, people come into my life for shared reasons, we learn and go forward. However, I'm struggling to attain that same connection on this forum. Am I pushing too hard? You see I believe that every action in life is one in pursuit of peace, we're just not aware of those intentions behind the actions, but is that the problem, have I assumed too much - does everyone really want peace?

So, MM2 if you are in pursuit of peace then I know we have much to learn from each other.

Pat

[MM2]

Hey Truth,

If you are in pursuit of peace and truth, then I agree that we have a tremendous amount to synchronize over.

To me, it seems like in order to find peace and truth we need to elevate our thinking levels both through conscious analysis and through analysis through intuition but this is where I think a lot of spiritualists stagnate their progress because they use the word "intuition" as a fail safe to basically "stop thinking" or questioning how they are feeling or why they are feeling a certain way about a person, place or thing.

When I say "analysis through intuition" it does not mean I give my conscious mind an excuse to stop "thinking" and to start "trusting". Intuition seems to be what I am "forced" to do when my conscious mind does not have time or access to process the amount of information needed to make a decision inline with my vision and goals. So at that moment in time, if I am REASONABLE about my limitations, I must trust in my subconscious mind and the signals it is giving me after it has processed the bulk of the data I could not.

BUT after the decision is made, I do not forget about the intuitive signals but rather use my conscious mind to figure out what it was in my subconscious mind that gave me the intuitive signals that I received in an effort to better understand my nature and my being. This allows me to enlighten myself so that I can increase my capacity to think at higher levels and therefore deepen my trust, reasonability and spirituality.

After I read your words on having difficulty connecting with people on the forum, I feel that spiritual "fail safes" like the intuition comment I just made may be the thing that is limiting your expression of yourself and may be disconnecting you with other people on the forum, seeing as how the forum relies on strong writing skills which include proper grammar, sentence structure, and often style (especially in debates or friendly arguments).

In person you do not have to rely so much on prose and more "formal" written word stuff since you can rely on body language and tone of voice, but people who are masterful of the written word can interpret it and think about it at a higher level. They can read things about your words that maybe you can't. They can read your intentions, or in other words, read between the lines.

Just like body language and tone, we can be deceived when we read between the lines so we must be careful and always start by giving someone the benefit of the doubt, by asking questions first before making purely judgmental statements or to back up judgments with questions.

But the more aware we become of how to write and express ourselves more masterfully through the written word, the more we can connect and communicate. The problem, and this is another spiritual pitfall, is that formal education is often looked down upon in "spiritual" communities because it feels too restricting or controlling....but this is like the intuition comment from above. We should ask "why does it feel so restricting and controlling to me? May it actually benefit me to learn these skills and agree to use these grammatical structures?" but instead what seems to happen is that people don't question and don't challenge their initial impressions of learning something that may be difficult, which means they do not learn the skill and therefore a stuck expressing themselves on a lower level which truly stagnates their spiritual growth and self knowledge.

Does everyone want peace? I think the problem isn't so much that people have clear cut intentions, but rather they simply do not have the awareness levels to know what their intentions are. If they don't know what their intentions are, then how can they ever know if their actions are being subconsciously inspired by hurtful memories and therefore negative intentions, rather than peaceful ones from positive memories and experiences? I do think you are assuming too much in saying that everyone acts out of a desire for peace even if they don't know it. What I think you might be saying is that IF people were their Higher Selves and thus REASONABLE, then they would be acting out of peaceful intentions if their goals were peaceful ones...but it takes a relatively high level of awareness to be REASONABLE...which means that most people probably aren't and therefore have no sense of what their intentions are.

The trick though, is to become REASONABLE and learn the skills that allow you to express yourself that way. When you do, you can more easily keep track of your own intentions AND read between the lines to more accurate determine others intentions. You may simply be weak in debating truth, which can remedied by researching high level debate tactics and forms of arguments. Taking a logic tutorial may also help in learning about informal fallacies in debates and how to recognize when you ore someone else are using them.

I think once we do this, then we can begin talking about the best way to go bout achieving real peace and the first steps we should take to maximize our chances of achieving that goal: in other words, to pursue the most REASONABLE way. (can you see the connection?)

I was hoping to point out with this thread that control dramas make people unreasonable and that the dialog we had was unreasonable due to many of the intentions involved but also the poor level of expression that was evident with all the assumptions and informal fallacies used during the conversation.

I think we have a lot to share, but right now I feel that there is bottle neck in the area of accurately expressing the ideas and thoughts we want to share on this forum. Expression with english words is a skill that can be honed though and I am eager to get past this bottleneck with anyone in the Celestine Forum and with you truth.

Thank you for the honest words.

http://www.eoni.com/~visionquest/library/lostart.html
_________________
Pessimists find difficulty in every opportunity. Optimists find opportunity in every difficulty.

[ceinvests]

MM2,

I know you haved moved on to other insights, but let me clarify what I was attempting to say:

Yes, it seemed as if you were preaching in that you continued on such a straight and narrow path that you were unwilling to hear any other perspectives on the subject. Your passion is healthy. You very might be driven by your soul to accomplish a mighty goal to alter extreme poverty on Earth during your lifetime. I would never challenge that.

I was simply (and I do mean simply) sharing that judging others paths, passions, souls has no value. If you stay focused on your agenda, others will come to you to help as the Universe deems you worthy of assisting you. Others will ask you. Others will want to hear.

You cannot demand others to care according to your perception of caring. You were sending some messages that IF Soulful/Caring/Loving/Intelligent = Must Be interested in your cause.

I was following my heart/soul and sharing a truth according to my awareness and good intentions that mentoring energy remains open to insight when insight is offered. There is a time to teach; there is a time to take in. Your rigidity was causing an energy that was defeating your purpose of inviting interest from your audience. I am not saying that nobody else was 'playing games', 'having control dramas'. You are the askee, so I was giving you feedback on you.

Absolutely, some (all?) might revert to dramas when they feel unheard.

Grins N Glimmers!
Ce
_________________
Searching Searcher

[truth]

Hi MM2,

I've just had a really long and detailed response to this do a time-out on me, which in some respects, although a little frustrating, enabled me to realise that the writing I did was for me and not you. So, my response is now much shorter:

I think the reason we've had difficulty communicating is not so much style and words rather the driver - we are both very much head-led people, the mind is all, especially when we are putting pen to paper so to speak, but this peace thing is so much more than the mind alone - it is all encompassing.

Whenever we communicate if we can endeavour to do so with the intention of peace, I believe that we can bring that peace into all aspects of our lives. Honing strategies is all well and good, but not when we insist that others conform to our way of doing things - that, my friend is purely an ego-massage - shortlived and shortloved. When we have the true intention of peace in our minds, bodies and souls, that is for the long term and for everyone. So a good tip is to look out for those we dismiss, for they bring us the lessons we really want to learn. However, the choice is ours - who do we choose to listen to and follow our ego or our higher self?

We do so want peace and it's ours for the living, our path is wide enough for all - let's live it with a want to share it.

Pat

[MM2]

Hey truth,

I would like to address this sentence:

[truth]

Yep, you've hit the nail on the head. However, although we might not be fully aware of the driver that triggers our need to communicate with others, it is definitely there and it is more than important. Think about it. You are an academic, possibly having access to many forms of discussion groups, so why are you spending time and effort on this forum that seems to provide you with nothing but frustration? The driver is there, otherwise you would not continue to come back for more - we all have busy lives to lead, you know, and it is the driver that makes this forum special. The problem is that if you are not aware of your real reason for connecting with others, the lack of awareness coupled with uncertainty will impact the quality of the engagement.

For example you started this theme with a long listing of dialogue off the chat room, asking for input regarding control dramas... what did you really want to find out from this thread? Did you want to learn some scientific way of recognising control dramas at play? Did you want to learn when you yourself were using control dramas? Do you want to be able to stop using control dramas in your own life? Did you want to highlight where others were using control dramas - with the intention of halting them from using them in the future?

The thing is that if we are not clear on what drives our actions we are going to send out mixed messages to those with whom we want to engage. As you stated before, we can get around it in the material world, because we have learnt how to get on with each other as best we can. This forum on the other hand is far more honest and I'm afraid in that respect it can be far more personally confronting. The wonderful thing about it being that when we do want to confront our own insecurities, life has a way of making it happen whether we like it or not at the time. A good example being this thread and all of the postings on it.

I've learnt so much about bringing who I really am to life through this forum, you just would not believe, and the likes of your good self have brought out the really powerful stuff - so thank you.

The advice - accept every reply with the love, respect and trust you would want your own postings to receive - that way we can learn to read behind our own shortcomings and learn to be rid of them.

[MM2]

Hey,

This jumps out at me:

[truth]

I think the reason we are going around in circles here is that humans have become used to seeing or experiencing a problem in life and instead of realising that they themselves are the cause of the circumstance presenting itself as a problem, we blame the 'other'. We have become accustomed to fixing the effect, rather than addressing the cause - our subjective perception of reality (Introducing Social Geographies)presenting itself to us as a problem, only because it reflects an issue that we have to resolve in ourselves. The question we have to ask ourselves is: do we want the rest of the whole of life to change and fit into our reality or do we change ourselves to enable us to work with the rest of the whole of life? I opted for the latter, because I decided that I'd have to wait an awful long time for the former!

Control dramas only come into play when we lose faith in who we are and what we are doing and switch to cognitive mode (when we live in the former option) - we all do it, we've been brought up to think ourselves through situations rather than waiting for the angst to pass. Rishi has just posted a piece on meditation and that is exactly what we should do when faced with a crisis - stop, have a cup of tea or whatever, regain our faith and then decide what to do, but we don't, we act our way through the difficult situation... and that is when we revert to control dramas. Self-doubt will bring out the passive controls, inflated ego the aggressive - we all use a mixture of both.

How do we learn to live with/without them? By dealing with our own first. Once we have our own sussed, we are able to retain/regain faith, we see past those of others to the point where they disappear.

I know the control drama concept is very important to you, but until you know your own personal reason for wanting to find out more, you will not be able to effectively communicate that reason to others, which will halt/hinder your progress.

[truth]

Hi MM2,

Can you ignore the last post please? I knew I had to write it, in fact at the time I could not not write it and even submitted it without a preview. However, mid yesterday afternoon, I got a call to look at it again and I realised that there was something missing - and I became excited at the prospect of working out what it was. Before I went to sleep last night I asked myself how to respond to your control drama query and I woke this morning (about 3am!!) with the answer. I love this collective consciousness thing.

Anyway, it now appears that what I wrote yesterday was for my own need to get my thoughts straight in order to be able to place another piece of my life's puzzle - so thank you for the opportunity and apologies if the posting upset you in any way. I could have edited it out, but I think it should remain there as a good example of good intentions triggering a control drama situation due to lack of clarity around the question posed - the reason for the quest for answers was not clear... we are on a quest for questions rather than a quest for answers...

Human development has been centred round finding solutions to problems. However, I would argue that to progress that development we now need to turn our attention to questions. It was reported in The Sunday Times magazine this week that Haiti is the poorest country in the West. Built on slavery and crippled for 150 years by the debt of freeing itself of slavery, followed by the ravages of a dictatorship that sold all it could to remain in power, culminating in extreme poverty... for some, a poverty that forces parents to sell their children into slavery. Across the border, the country that shares this small island with Haiti, the Dominican Republic is flourishing.

Yes we could throw money at it, but where might that lead? The problem is too complex for solutions based on our limited knowledge, we need questions.

There are two modes of thought regarding social problem solution. The first is the scientific or medical model, the second is the social scientific model. In the most basic of terms the former advocates that problems need to be addressed in order for the sufferer to be able to perform in the way of life that suits the majority, and the latter, that the problems reflect where societal structures need to change. So, one says to fix the individual to fit society and the other to fix society to fit the individual. This morning I awoke with a third way which is of course a combination of the two.

I've been banging on about the individual having to change in order to live peacefully in the world, which caused me a bit of a concern when I awoke at three, because that fits with the medical model and I certainly do not advocate dealing with the symptoms - I'm a find the root cause and learn from the problem person - dilemma. And that's when the third way came clear.

Both models appear to ignore two significant elements in life: knowledge gaps (ignorance) and individual agency (we as individuals can change this world). Control dramas are our way towards being able to understand how to make the most of both of those elements.

Now, I didn't go through the scientific route of working out when people were using dramas in order to work out my own. In fact I really don't think it is possible to work it out that way, because some are so incredibly subtle. However, I'm always open to be proved wrong and should you decide to remain on that track, I will support you in any way I can, because that would mean that there is a way, a way that is not mine at this point in time. So, to my way, I am learning how to remove control dramas from my own life and that was by realising that everyone in the World is good, that we are all inextricably linked to each other and that what hurts and pleases the one will hurt and please the whole. So, that set my personal task, to work out why I wasn't comfortable with a life that was here for me to enjoy living (I’d already decided that life wasn’t meant to be miserable) ... all I did was to set in my heart a want to be the real me every moment of my life and then allowed life to provide me with the opportunities to do so. It was not easy.

I thought I knew everything I needed to know to be me, as the need to revert to control dramas disappeared so too did my perceived knowledge. When we look at knowledge as I did, as our being able to second guess what the future might bring, it was a bit of a shock to realise I knew nothing of the sort... Yes, I’d learnt how to survive in the world armed with a mass of insecurities and my armoury that enabled me to deal with the uncomfortable situations that arose, but that was survival of the moment by second guessing what would happen if I didn’t use the control drama. My present is now mostly free to enjoy and I now have no clue as to what the future might hold - every part of my being tells me it is going to be amazing, but as to how that amazing will manifest itself, I have no idea and I believe that is exactly how life should be for everyone – lived with excited anticipation of something wonderful about to happen.

So, I’d say again that the clue is in the contradictions in life. Whenever we see something that doesn’t fit our view of the way life should be, instead of connecting with the adult-knows-all view and judge it as being wrong, connect with the childlike wonder of life that triggers a question. Plant the question in the heart with a want to understand and life will provide its answers… the extraordinary in life can often be hidden in the mundane.

Thank you again for allowing me to put those pieces of my puzzle together - I'm in the middle of exams and it just so happens that the two models form part of the Genetics module - should make the exam interesting!

Pat

[Theressa]

Hi All,

I am sat here in the middle of exams too Pat/Truth and I am laughing because this year I have been on a roller coaster and much of the time felt out of control. I asked many for help and on looking back each gave me just a small slice at a time of what I needed as if it was all revealed slowly. At times this was damn right terrifying. It was like being in a lions cage and only being able to take one step at a time towards the gate and all the time thinking the lion would get me. Many times I said "look universe you seem to want me to do this but where is the flaming help?" I got through each essay and now they are all submitted.

Last week I got so sick and had the worst cramps imaginable. My first exam was Friday and after not even being able to eat or drink properly for days I went and sat the exam. I prayed for the strength to get through. I finally got a doctors appointment and some anti-sickness tablets. What went through my mind just before the exam when I only just got there in time to do the exam was "if its meant it will be"

What was extraordinary was that my body my doctor thinks for a number of reasons but stress especially totally over reacted and this was more than likely to do with the exam period that is still upon me. The tablets are helping with anxiety also. What I am still figuring out is how I could have controlled anxieties especially since they were unconscious?

Why might I be anxious? Well to pass this year the exams are the last of my assessments and all have to be PASSED to go on to the next year. A lot riding on these exams. So much so my mind/body nearly sabotaged the whole lot by making me ill.

Why do I want this degree? Because it will enable me to extend my influence to many vulnerable people. I want to spread LOVE and smiles to many who have been put in unequal conditions. I want to facilitate the growth of others through my intuitions to do so. Also because many readings have told me It is my calling. But I must have the courage to go after my calling. I spent my birthday yesterday revising because you know this is my LIFE!!! This is who I want to be. I wouldn't change this year for anyone even though it has felt like one of the scariest.

So here lies the issue that sometimes our minds are so powerful that they can stop us doing what we need to do to fulfil our destiny. And because they are unconscious they are uneasy to manage. We only know the mind is powerful because we see its manifestation in the body.

So I conclude by saying the mind is very controlling and the biggest control drama of the lot. It can even over ride much but when I asked for heavens help I still got to that exam.

I am not sure why I need to write this but I did.

HUGS TO YOU ALL
Theressa xxxx

[truth]

Hi Theressa,

I know why you wrote it, for me - thank you for clarifying the heart/mind duality - what do we choose to take the lead in our lives?

Heart-led with zero individual control, mind-led with total individual control or I guess there is always a third option, a mixture of both. And that's key, because we all function on a mixture of both. That means we do have the opportunity to work out what feels right for us and choose to live our lives in one way or the other.

When confronted with having to prove his own existence Descartes said 'I think therefore I am'. Although I don't think we can have idea about what it means to exist at this point in time, I would like to take this opportunity to remove the perception that Descarte's words have been brought to mean - that the ability to actively think is the be all and end all in life, perhaps had he said something like 'I experience thoughts therefore I am', we would have become more open to the wonders of life rather than trying to fit them into our way of living.

Feel the heart,
Pat

[Theressa]

Hi Truth,

WOW yes that is it. Despite my mind/body I listened to my guides/higher self or whatever one would call it and acted. Its interesting that last Wednesday I had a dream about 4 buses. The first the 85 went past and then the 3 bus and then the 43 and i decided not to get on the first two and the 43 I missed. Notice they all add up to seven when added together.

Then came another 43 bus but it was travelling with the bus driving opposite to how it usually is. But the driver was facing the right way. Then the bus turned on its side and an assistant opened a flap which let off an alarm and lots of my family members got off the bus.

This dream was about how despite the opportunities and set backs and illness my higherself was in control and was taking me in the right direction. Despite my apprehensions. Even despite my mind/body trying to jepodize my journey. As long as I listened to my higher self I would be going in the right direction.

Pat you summarized for me what I needed to know about all that recently happened. Thank you and good luck with your exams. So glad we both had the courage and insight to get thus far!!!

Love and light, I hope to catch up with you and have more chats once the exam periods are over for us both.
Theressa xx

[MM2]

Hey truth,

I'm a little bewildered and intrigued by this paragraph:

[Theressa]

Hi MM2,

Thank you for the good wishes about my exams

What do you mean about my posts being similar over the past few months. Please could you explain as I am very interested in your opinion.

Warm wishes
Theressa x

[truth]

Hi MM2,

I think we must be very similar with regard to how we learn about life and yet very different in our approach to its application - I think we do have an awful lot to learn from each other. On a lighter note, last week on
'The Simpsons', Mr Burns, having become frustrated in his attempts to share some idle chatter with Lisa Simpson, asked her whether she ever switched off. As my husband often likened me to Lisa Simpson, it was a little disconcerting when I realised that I too never seemed to switch off - I'm learning. And that's the problem isn't it? How to remain focused and yet at the same time not allow whatever we are focused on rule our lives...

I have always been my own greatest critic, so when learning about my own control dramas through this site, I found that I'm called to my old posts when I'm not applying in life what I'm preaching here, hence the opening apology that you queried. I really do want to live that which I preach and I'm learning how to realise how to get the best out of that want.

As to searching for questions, you answered this yourself in a previous post - it's when something happens that we're not happy with and we question our response to the event rather than the event. As to halting seeking out answers, this is when we use all that we've learnt in order to rationalise a solution - big mistake, because all we do is to perpetuate past mistakes. We should only ever implement solutions when there is no doubt in our whole, not just our mind that it is the right action. For example, when I know I'm doing right, there is no need whatsoever for my intellect to get involved in the decision making process, because it feels right even though I might not know why. I might try to rationalise the decision, but really I can't, I just know it's right. You also referred to intuition in an earlier post implying it was a reactionary process rather one that is in tune with the whole of life. Are you able to discern between the two? When we are in tune with the whole of life, there is no doubt.

Which sort of brings me to the Zeitgeist Movement, thank you for the link. I was both inspired and disconcerted - inspired by the shared intentions borne of the ideas for the abolition of economic growth, personal property and perceived status. However, I became disconcerted at their switch to strategic application mode instead of accepting the ideas as true and waiting for the next step to be revealed, I guess its their idea of the human race - that it is a sprint rather than a marathon that will, if we are lucky, last millenia. I truly believe that the next stage of human development is to halt our inane need to implement solutions that are based on past experience, because it immediately removes us from the possibilities that those ideas might bring. For example, they advocate the knowledge base to which we can refer in order to make life's decisions, justifying the claim using the limited decision making capacity of the human brain. Utter twaddle! We do not yet know the potential of the human brain and yet these guys have already limited the potential future based on their limited knowledge. And what of the collective consciousness and its as yet untapped power. I don't think Fleming, Einstein etc etc did their thing by limiting their knowledge to that which had been learned before. Although I understand their intentions, some of their prospective applications are majorly flawed.

And so to control dramas - tricky isn't it when people refuse to believe their way is not the right way, be them criminals, bankers, scientists or students. For example, having learnt what I did about human behaviours, I wanted to seek out research into optimum human behaviours - was any being carried out? Not that I could find, because of our current fixation with solving problems rather than associating ourselves with the cause of the problem. I would be interested in your ideas. In the meantime, the scientific model is missing one significant element and that is the basis on which the research is being carried out, be it selfish (strategic) or selfless (blue sky). The selfless research being conducted from the basis of a wonder of life and its possibilities. That wonder being triggered by the belief that humans can create the world in which we all want to live.

We are definitely on track, because twenty years ago the ideas that the Zeitgeist Movement have today would have been unthinkable... all we have to do now is put into practice that which we preach.

This time last year I was trying to make headways into research into optimum human behaviours, you never know, you and/or The Zeitgeist Movement might be the connection I was looking for.

Thank you again,
Pat