Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[Theressa]

Eaglesoul,

U brought joy to me when I read your post.

My understanding is that the feminine/intuition guides us to what is right actions so You are right action is a to be embraced. BUT right action that is intuited rather than conditioned patterned responses.

Love, light and blessings
Theressa xx

[Shamana]

Truth said, "there is an awful lot of good stuff happening in life – not all society is crippling the planet. ..... "

AWESOME!! Please list all the ways and how they are really making a difference!

Thank you....................

[Grahame]

Where attention goes energy flows.

I grow my food as sustainably as I am able, I show my children great ways to live in harmony with the world. That is all one needs to do to alleviate the problems one sees with the world. BE the change you wish to see and be satisfied that you are doing all that you can do. Stressing over the rest of it, and the way others behave does nothing to change it, except to introduce more stress into your 'environment'.

Not listening to your intuition, not following your inner guidance is what leads us and the world down the path of destruction. Our inner world IS our environment, it IS our mind. Industrial Society IS our mind and our environment at this time. I believe it is up to us to change our minds, our inner vision, if we ever wish to effect the external vision.

I for one think it's kind of arrogant of individuals or generations of people to think they are greater than Mother Earth! I trust that she knows what she is doing, after all she has been doing it for billions of years. We only think we have been in control for a couple of hundred years! It's laughable really.

And if we take the other route and decide that we really are creators, then stop crapping around and get on with creating a great future full of love instead of this one people seem to be fooling around with, that is based on fear. Either way, if you are of the creator ilk or one who believes in pre-destiny, what choice do you really have but to concentrate on what is great, and make your daily choices based on what you feel is best inside of you?

The important list of things that are Awesome in this world at the moment is the list that you are doing.

Carry water, chop wood.
_________________
"Problems cannot be solved from the same level of consciousness that created them" - Einstien

[truth]

My dear Shamana,

Yet another penny drops. Your need for specifics, in conjunction with the implied fun you had when putting your post together, tells me that you are having difficulty discerning between that which is enjoyable and good and that which is enjoyable and bad... tricky one to resolve when setting out to solve the World's problems.

I'll tell you what I've gleaned. You've got together with a group of mates who all agree what issues need to be addressed in the World, but with few clues as to how to go about addressing those problems. You 'find' this forum and 'know' that there's something here to help you on your way, but have real difficulty engaging with that something - so you experiment, Groundhog Day style - you switch between getting angry and shouting and screaming to being reasonable to being foolish to being dishonest (AWESOME & thank you) - but all the time you are trying to engage the people of this forum, because deep down you know that a piece of your puzzle lies here. You are right - it does.

All the clues are here somewhere on this forum, the problem you have in finding them is due to the way you go about your search. Demands of life might work in the material world, where others, in self-preservation mode will comply for short-term peace. However, this forum and the life we are moving into is different. To me it appears as though we have to move from surviving life, to being at one with life and then to being of life to make it work well. So, the question is, how to get there? As far as the clues are concerned, want them and believe in them and life will guide you to them. A word of warning - we don't always like the look of that which we find, because it reflects our own aesthetic preferences and prejudices - those need our urgent attention if we are to be of life.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, all aspects of life are as equally as valid as the next. Whenever we judge something as wrong, we close ourself off from understanding it and when we make that choice not to understand something we choose to live in ignorance. Real progress cannot be made from a basis of ignorance.

You've asked for a list, but that is not mine to give, it is for you to find. In the meantime read John L Peterson's 2012... there's much to do and the more aware we are of who we are and our place in life, the easier the transition for all.

One curiosity from this post for me is that you had to display dishonesty in order for me to see where you were coming from... curious indeed! Wow! Dishonesty is a plea for help... there really is nothing to fear when we trust ourselves, life and the part we are to play in life.

Thank you,
Pat

[Shamana]

Dear Truth,

You have yet, to just once, answer directly and honestly any of my questions...However you always have time to "psychoanalyze" me as dishonest. Now that is funny!

When I list facts, you say I'm angry. How about some straight answers to the questions asked, instead of avoidance and ignoring the subjects that are brought up? I'm not in a personal contest withyou...

Not all ways of life are valid....they exist and are, yes, however they are also destructive. They are destructive for no good reason, for they are only a result of the standards of consumerism, ego, and power. Yes, I object to this. I object because it's wrong and useless, not because of emotions.....

Yes, the earth knows what to do, but our bodies also know what to do, however once a body is overrun with cancer, the body dies. Humans are causing cancer upon the earth, pure and simple. There is just so much that the earth can sustain. Is this true or not? Just look at how many species die every hour....look at all the clear cutting of rain forests ......look at the way we grow food and ruin the soil......the list goes on and on......

Please don't tell me I'm angry...I am only honest. If the facts I state are wrong then tell me the correct ones.

Shamana

[truth]

Hi Shamana,

Honesty is a tricky beast. You see the way I see life, our intentions might be good and honourable, but our societal, cultural, economic and political programming gets in the way of us being truly honest both with ourselves and each other.

Again, this is my view - humans have been blessed with our ability to rationalise. However, there is a danger - whenever there is a gap in our knowledge that creates a conflict between that which we believe (our programming) and our truths, we fill that gap with rationality whether it is rational or not. In effect we rationalise the irrational by providing ourselves with excuses, justifications or blaming others. Now, only we can learn for ourselves when we are being as honest with ourselves as we possibly can. However, and this is another blessing that can itself cause further conflict, but this time with the people with whom we relate - our dishonesty, whether we know we are being dishonest or not, reveals itself to others. They can feel, sense or intuit that we are not being true to ourselves. The human ability to rationalise the irrational is a bit of a bugger, but once we realise what is happening, we can use it to learn a little more about who we truly are through how our lives impact others and how other's lives impact ours... if we so choose.

Now, because I believe that all are inherently good and, therefore, want to live our best intentions, it is only the above programming that halts us from doing so. Once we begin to be true to ourselves, we can see past the irrationalities and start to learn how to connect with the intention.

You mentioned psychoanalysis, but it's not, it's my way of communicating what I experience - it's my truth the best way I can communicate it... it might not be ideal for you, but there you go, I'm willing to progress through learning. Would I have written anything different in my previous post? Having reviewed the post, no I would not. However, had I reviewed the post and found that I had been dishonest in any way, believe me, I would have been the first to admit it.

So, what I glean from your post is that we have a connection - a connection from which, if my belief is correct, we are both meant to progress. Although I feel and acknowledged my sense of progress, you haven't. Does that mean that you haven't progressed, or merely that you haven't acknowledged the progress?

I mentioned in my last post that I could not provide you with a list of all the good stuff, I don't have such a list, because, having dealt with my own programming, I no longer see life as being either good or bad, it is life. Now I'm not saying that when I do experience the good or bad it is not real - it is definitely real. However, that duality is balanced by life itself and my place in that life - the good and bad is my self reflected in life - life isn't good or bad or right or wrong, I am; life just is.

I chose to be the authentic me and life provided me with 'opportunites' to realise my own programming and release myself from it. My gaps in knowledge continue to trigger irrationalities, but only when I doubt either me, life or my place in it. In most cases those gaps become part of the great unknown, which when welcomed provide me with answers. Do I feel inclined to share that with others? Too right. Am I fulfilling that role to the best of my potential? I'm trying.

Does any of the above make sense?

Always keen to learn,
Pat

[eaglesoul]

Always keen to learn...mmmm, Bravo Pat ! great post ...
Yes , to me that is so true ,the Great Unknown provides the answers when welcomed ...
You ask : Am I fulfilling that role to the best of my potential?
Me: you are doing your best every minute of your life...even when you are not being your best...you are doing your best given your knowledge at the time , now ...being your best self? that is a question of better info and willingness to go the extra mile, or to quote you being keen to learn ...and practice...
Now sometimes one is one best self spontaneously...that is beautiful...it is the stuff of being truly human...like you seem to have done here now,
in this post you have excelled...I can feel ur Higuer Self speaking...
you have lifted us all ...thanks
Grahame great post , I loved it
You say:
BE the change you wish to see and be satisfied that you are doing all that you can do. Stressing over the rest of it, and the way others behave does nothing to change it, except to introduce more stress into your 'environment'.
Me:Yes, yes , yes, I agree
You say: Not listening to your intuition, not following your inner guidance is what leads us and the world down the path of destruction. Our inner world IS our environment, it IS our mind. Industrial Society IS our mind and our environment at this time. I believe it is up to us to change our minds, our inner vision, if we ever wish to effect the external vision.
Me , yes, and I can add to that that we have chosen to come to Earth at this troubled times ...I believe exactly to do that ....change our minds...that affects the morphogenetic field ...that changes the world !
Theressa Goooood my words brought joy to you...
You say:
right action that is intuited rather than conditioned patterned responses...
yes , good point
I agree, I call that sync action ,it is when all parts of me work in harmony ...
Shamana : Dont know how long have u been pondering this things enviromental, I`ve been on this for more than 30 yrs...and in this period of time have seen many fads come and go on the theme, have raised my grownup kids conscious of the enviroment issues (one of them is talking about these things on her radio show every week, the other one did her Art thesis on nature patterns ) and , have learned and teached ecological stuff every time I have the opportunity ,do my best to use no chemicals in my garden , kitchen and laundry , I teach every year the 9 insights to people for free ,and there I stress the enviromental issues that appear on the workbook too, I also care about that when i shop for my clothing and home , -have you heard of a movement called living with a 100 things? It is interesting.
I also do that in my professional practice ,whenever the issue is raised.
in my home I separate my garbage to recycle plastic and glass ,and this year my goal is to have most of it made compost-do you know that we can use more than 60% of our garbage back into soil with lots of nutrients?I feel i`ve done my share , and will continue to do so ...cause there is too much to do... like this summer at the beach , where in my walk I collected every plastic thing in my way...that was left in the sand to pollute the sea...instead they ended in a huge bag that I happily deposited in the garbage can....
The complication I see in the way you seem to stand in this subject is that you object...list the negative and stand there...the extent of the damage seems to paralyze you, or so it feels from where I am. I can see the colors of fear , even dispair in your words...and that is unhealthy, to you ,and that I care about ,and to the enviroment , in my opinion.
instead I invite you to try something different : do your best in whatever way you feel prompted to ..there are great initiatives out there, I am sure the Universe will put one in your way if you remain aware
There is a great site called Care2 with lots of info on actions to better the enviroment...it was invited to the White House this year ...isnt that in itself great?there is info on housecleaning with no pollution , on gardening , on cosmetics...you name it, yes ,there are great things going on today , things we only dreamed of 30 yrs ago...(all those that have been here for that lenght or more and want to share..please do so...) and now are for real...yes we have progressed , finally the world leaders are seeing things that were not seen before...like leaving behind fossil fuels, like the climate change issues ,promoting cleaner energies ,etc, lets tell them we want them to walk that path ...that is another way we contribute ....
and lets pray too , we can make the shift needed on time...
Shamana you have a strong voice....permit Spirit to use it for the good of all things alive,realize where are you putting your energy ...(James R:workbooks are great ... u can use them to learn about that )and you will be a light in the dark...
You just need to be willing to open your eyes to the good that is being done...and you will see...it is not what you look at, is what you see ...
get busy and do what you can, the rest will come along, I assure you
Namaste

[sushil_yadav]

This crazy society did not anticipate "Financial Collapse" until it actually happened.

This crazy society is not going to anticipate "Ecosystem Collapse" until it actually happens.


The way this insane, abnormal and criminal society is running is like :

A car running in a closed garage.

Adding extra floors to a building by removing bricks from the lower floors.


The crash - the collapse - the end is coming.

It is a matter of one or two decades at the most.


sushil_yadav
PowerSwitch
EnviroLink
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[Grahame]

I see you have posted exactly the same reply to the same topic on the Permaculture forum sushil. I guess you don't really care about what other people think? I suppose that is how things got to 'this state' in the first place...

Might be time to put this baby to bed, eh?!

There is only so much 'The sky is falling!, the sky is falling!' I can take. I'm not coming back to this post, because it is just feeding your control drama.

Peace to you and all the best for your future, but I can't join you in the one you are choosing at the moment...
_________________
"Problems cannot be solved from the same level of consciousness that created them" - Einstien

[sushil_yadav]

Truth hurts - does'nt it?

Reality hurts - does'nt it?


Take a look at the satellite pictures of forests taken 30 years ago and compare them with the satellite pictures of this year to know how many forests have been cut down on this planet.

Take a look at the satellite pictures of Arctic ice taken 30 years ago and compare them with the satellite pictures of this year to know how much ice cover has been lost on earth.

Humans have decimated animals, trees, birds and fish. Humans have poisoned the sky, the land, the oceans.

The entire planet has been turned into a garbage dump/ landfill - billions of tonnes of metal waste, plastic waste and electronic waste on land and in the oceans.

Thousands of man-made toxic chemicals in the air, in the water and in the food chain.

If you want to think positive - go ahead.

I cannot do that.



You accuse me of not hearing others - of not caring about what other people think. I posted the following in response to your post earlier on this thread. If this is not a reply then what is it?

[Shamana]

[quote="sushil_yadav"]Truth hurts - does'nt it?

Reality hurts - does'nt it?


Take a look at the satellite pictures of forests taken 30 years ago and compare them with the satellite pictures of this year to know how many forests have been cut down on this planet.

Take a look at the satellite pictures of Arctic ice taken 30 years ago and compare them with the satellite pictures of this year to know how much ice cover has been lost on earth.

Humans have decimated animals, trees, birds and fish. Humans have poisoned the sky, the land, the oceans.

The entire planet has been turned into a garbage dump/ landfill - billions of tonnes of metal waste, plastic waste and electronic waste on land and in the oceans.

Thousands of man-made toxic chemicals in the air, in the water and in the food chain.

If you want to think positive - go ahead.

I cannot do that. "



Sushil...You are being positive....in order to be positive one has to be honest first and look at facts. If the course of the species keeps going in this direction then there isn't much hope for all those extinct species, depleted oceans, toxins in the air and soil, and stripped lands, to just name a few.

We can send out good energy, but what will people do with the energy? Will they do good with it or will they be energized to keep going in the direction they are going? Without Wisdom, without honesty, without logic and a truthful look at facts, the answer is very clear that they will keep going in the direction that they are going.

It appears that people really don't care. People will change any and most, if not all, subjects to a personal issue. The destruction that we are talking about is not a personal issue with any individual, it is a list of facts that need to be addressed. Not ony in energy, but in honesty and ACTION.

I think the only positive people around are those that are honest about what is really going on...not perception of what is going on, but facts of what is going on. With any intellegence (and honesty) one can surmise the end result. With wisdom, one will know that certain actions must be taken.

Just want you to know, Sushil, that I hear you and salute your straightforwardness. Thank you for some sane discussion.

Shamana

[truth]

Sushil and Shamana,

Please go for it, I'm interested to see how your discussion of this topic pans out...

Pat

[Rainmaker]

I'm afraid I don't have any answers concerning this dialogue. However I feel compelled to speak a few words to those who have posted on this issue. I wanted to say thank you for the discussion. At first I was feeling, well this post is nothing but a debate and I can learn nothing from it, however, after sitting with it a few days, I have realized that when you listen to passionate voices about an issue there is always something there to learn, something deeper to understand about myself, others, and the world.

Namaste,
Rainmaker

[Theressa]

Mistakes OR learning points?

Fear filling or Action?

Maybe the person who started this thread should go and become an adviser to the government, which would be a very good use of energy. No one is saying that we don't need to become aware of our behaviours and to do things differently. I did not hear Truth, Grahame or myself say we could not learn and change. In fact awareness and knowledge I am all for.



We all have good intentions and many of us ACT to make the world a more loving place.

LOVE TO U ALL FOR THE CONTRIBUTIONS MADE TO THE WHOLE!!!!!!!!!!!![/b]

[truth]

In Spiral Dynamics terms, we're not going to progress to applying our knowledge gained and onto progressing all life until we move out of the "I'm right" or "We're right" to the "We are all equal" phase of human development. So guys, we need to work on that move... do we believe that all who live are equal?

You see trust finds its place in us when we know we are equal, that is our power. Whenever we live life under somebody's authority or authorising over somebody else's life we live a life of inequality. However, when we trust ourselves to be ourselves, we know that we will move forward with complete ownership of the impact of our actions on our own lives and those of others and with equal standing of all of those others.

Shamana declared the state of current play clearly: "We can send out good energy, but what will people do with the energy? Will they do good with it or will they be energized to keep going in the direction they are going?"

When we trust ourselves to live with the fallout of our actions, we deal with the fallout, we don't try to second guess it. The thing is that when we try to second guess life, we close ourselves off from its possibilities. Whereas you advocate holding back your energy I'm endeavouring to let it flow.

The way I see it, the free flowing energy is the way of the Universe, nobody owns it as such, we can't build up a stock of it and use it as we please, which means that when we halt that flow, albeit unknowingly due to our own human limitations, we halt life's true progress.

No one knows where the Universe will take us, and no matter how much we do so, no one of us is able to impact its course, because we all at some time or another are touched by its presence and we all want more of it. However, in order to be ready, willing and able to play our full part when we invariably are called upon to do so, we have to be able to view all life from the basis of equal validity, that way we use whatever is available in the way of resource and move it forward in a responsible, respectful, open and honest manner. We have to work with the capitalist nature of man in order to move it onto its next developmental stage - in order to do that we have to have faith in ourselves. We have to let that energy flow in as much of life as we possibly can. It's a big job, but every energised baby step in the right direction brings progress in giant leaps.

The human being is a wondrous creature, welcomed on a basis of trust we bring that true wonder to life... welcome life as you would want to be welcomed in it... take the first step.