Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[rishi]

The Crucifixion of Truth

If a person really wants to understand the madness of the modern day, particularly that of Western civilization, then they have to get ruthlessly honest about what’s going on in the daily world. Clear thinking and observation outside the box of established norms is fully necessary. But to do that one must take a clear look at history, and what our probable future is as a species.

The history of Western civilization is that of continual trauma, social unrest and unnecessary war, combined with the bogus ideologies of unnatural, religious thinking. Even when the Roman Empire died out, it’s legacy continued on in the form of the so-called, “Holy Roman Empire” with Crusades sponsored by the Church against Nature, Muslim invasion, and to promote all manner of other wars internal to Europe. Rome was sacked, but the lust for ruler-ship at the tip of a sword remained alive and well. Today we find that the same traumas continue to be passed down from generation to generation. They linger on in the form of social unrest, unnecessary battles and hollow religious ritual, so much so that the informed person cannot honestly say we’ve progressed at all since the gladiatorial games. Even worse, all these are bound up with the shallowness of consumerism found in television ads, “reality” TV shows and fashion magazine hype. The fascist self-superiority of old Rome, and in fact of ALL EMPIRES, is the same one we find in the modern attitude that Christianity is Superior and Divinely Guided, while everyone else needs to be “saved”. In consumerism, products are sold with the very same egotism in mind, as in, “the clothes make the man”, and so too does the new car, fancy house and all the false mannerisms of fashion. It is commonly assumed in fact, that possessing shiny, expensive objects actually makes you a better person than those who don’t own them. However, the “clothes” never have and never will, “make the man”. Only the man, (or woman) can do that, and it doesn’t matter in the slightest what they wear in the mean time.

Everyone knows or secretly suspects, that the false imagery of consumerism is a dead end. They suspect that materialism has led us into a blind alley, and that there is far more to life than the random collision of molecules in a water base, or the buying of products at the supermarket. Everyone knows or at least suspects that Western society, and most of the world by extension, took a gravely wrong turn upon that path of history, leading to the modern day. The depletion of the ozone layer, pollution of the oceans, rivers, lakes and streams, genetic engineering, the unwise use of pesticides and herbicides, sweat-shop produced goods, the cutting down of the world’s forests and the conditioning of young minds to become unquestioning little soldiers, civil servants, and corporate gears in a great machine of destruction, is only just a small portion of evidence for this wrong turn. Additionally, we have mass mental illness in the form of sports hysteria, meaningless religious devotion without substance, and the widespread taking of Prozac and other “depression remedies”. We also have the drinking of alcohol to excess, 1000 times the incidence of cancer than that of only 3 generations ago, with children on Ritalin and adults with chronic ADD, who watch with fascination their favorite, “game/reality show” every day of the week and never question “why?”. There can be little doubt that the modern world has gone horribly astray, to the point of various forms of mass suicide. The modern world is not about inner growth, it’s about finding convenient diversions or excuses so all that pain is minimized. It’s about the stifling of every honest and genuine feeling, so as to survive another day of drudgery and meaninglessness, in our worship of the one true God…the DOLLAR.

So much for an honest review of the modern day. When you take a look at history, you find a similar pattern of human self destruction, except on a far lesser scale. It is said that one should learn from history in order to avoid the repeated mistakes revealed therein, but what nation or individual can today claim to have learned anything significant from history? What single person or nation truly embodies this understanding within their values, and as reflected in their daily actions?. Very few it would seem. The modern mindset is in fact very resistant to all forms of inner knowledge and self evaluation. It has invented defenses of all kinds, such as the bogus philosophy of, “there’s only my truth and your truth”, or “if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a sound?” Truth is NOT personal and it does not require human perception to operate. Science has long ago dethroned the absurd idea that world is flat and that WE are the center of the universe, one which was peddled by the Church for hundreds of years. But today this mindset has just been transferred to the idea that “reality” cannot function on it’s own without human permission or creativity. Due to the popularity of such thinking, society is both anti-intellectual and anti-spiritual. To put this statement another way would be to say that the modern world is marked by a profound mass denial of three basic things; 1) What the truth is, 2) where we’ve been in history, as well as, 3) where we’re going into the future.

There has been no one event or series of events that have occurred in past millennia, which could completely reveal the reason why modern humanity is in such an awful mess. What we see today is the accumulation of the wrong intent of many centuries, (karma). But there are some historical highlights worth mentioning in greater detail. Two that come to mind on this occasion are the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, and the Crucifixion of Christ. In the case of the Roman Empire, we find a very militaristic and materialistic society, who, with its’ slavery, corruption and utter thirst for world domination, is so similar to modern personal attitudes and international relations alike, that it is difficult not to think of it as an ancient template for our modern age. Any student of history can clearly see that this is so. With the ancient Romans we witnessed the widespread suppression of literally ALL other cultures and peoples for the sake of the so-called, “Glory of Rome”, a view that reflected the belief that the enslavement and domination of the entire world at the whim of a greedy few, was by Divine Providence. Today we have before us a carbon copy of these views, at the highest levels of government and corporate endeavor.

The second and perhaps more noteworthy event, The Crucifixion of Christ, (whose fate was tied in with the Roman Empire and it’s materialism/corruption), is an interesting study of the Western psyche. Although the Church would like to apply various bizarre and non-demonstrable implications regarding this event, the fact of the matter is far more simple. The fact is, Christ did not “die on the cross for our sins”, at least not in the Catholic sense; nor did he die as they claim, as some sort of “Divine sacrifice” to offset the wrong doings of all people who would live forever-after. He died as tens of thousands of other political and criminal opponents of the Roman Empire did, both before and after him. He died just like them to provide a public and graphic display, demonstrating to any onlooker of the futility of opposing Rome and it’s established views. The Romans made a public example of Christ just as they did the common thief, rogue politician and runaway slave. To apply some sort of cosmic, spiritual significance to this heinous act, is to debase the intent of Christ and all those that would be spiritual Masters, with such primitive thinking as, “I now sacrifice this goat or lamb or bull to the God…(whoever) so that they might grant my personal wishes.” Spiritual Masters do not die on crosses just so that our personal wrongdoings can be taken away forever. That is utter nonsense. The Church’s view of the crucifixion of Christ is a left-over from such primitive thinking, that if you sacrifice one thing, you’ll get another in exchange. But real spiritual progress doesn’t work that way and never will. The crucifixion of ANY person is a terribly cruel act. But the crucifixion of a spiritual Master is a true disaster of unspeakably degrading karma, for whoever commits it.

So let me tell you now why Christ really died on a cross. Christ did not die on a cross as some bizarre, Divine exchange of one wrong doing erasing all others. He was crucified because his message was opposed in every way…morally, socially, economically, emotionally and intellectually by his contemporaries, who were themselves devout materialists and dogma-steeped, religious ritualists. He died on the cross because mankind put him there. Why did people do this?....because they rejected his teachings as unacceptable to their existing religious and social beliefs. Christ in his spirituality was an ardent opponent of materialism, and of phony religious displays full of show and utterly hollow of meaning. It is for these reasons and these reasons alone that Christ was rejected as a dire threat to the existing social order. So in a way, the statement “Christ died on the cross for our sins” is indeed true, but not in the way that it is interpreted today. This statement is a leftover of what was said over and over again just after the crucifixion of Christ. People at that time realized that they had betrayed Christ, rejected his teachings and failed to carry forth what he prescribed in the enlightenment of all humanity. They failed to protect him from Roman and religious persecution, standing by instead as traitors to all that is Good. They watched him hang on pieces of wood, and then used his name to live the same Roman materialism and wage the same wars in the name of God. To them, it was better to follow the established norms of the day…the barbarity of empire, the foolish hollowness of religious myth, as well as mob rule, than to do and to be, what they knew to be true and correct. It is for this reason that Christ did not die on the cross for our sins, but BECAUSE OF THEM. He died then just as he would die now, for rightfully criticizing the hypocrisy of church organizations, phony rituals that mean nothing, and the utterly false values of the marketplace, all for the sake of truth and spiritual progress. Once again, Christ was tortured and killed by humanity just as he would be today, just as the truth is tortured and killed everyday in every form of mass media and social decision-making.

If we are to realize the modern day as based in large part by these two historical highlights, it is not difficult to understand that at one time humanity was given the choice between spiritual truth and that of materialistic, world dominating egotism. They were given a choice by the teachings of various spiritual teachers throughout history…between false religious myth, and the direct experience of God and Truth, based upon right intention and right living. Humanity has, in the vast majority, made it’s choice. It chooses materialism and false religious myth over the direct experience of truth. If ever there was an example of this in the choosing of destructive self indulgence at the cost of all else, the glorification of ego and the mindless following of religious folly, it is the modern day. These times in which we live are but an extension of Roman mental pathology. They are a further and complete rejection of truth. These times are yet another form of the on-going crucifixion of Christ, (as well as similar teachings of all other spiritual Masters) each and every day. Modern Christianity is about placating the still lingering guilt, (or sin, if you will) of the original (and on-going) rejection of Christ and all that is true, over all that is false. That is why modern Christianity bears no resemblance whatsoever to the teachings, methods, states of consciousness, or advocated lifestyle of Christ and other spiritual Masters. That is also why consumerism, materialism and the lust for empire rule the day. Even bombs are dropped in the name of God today. Wars of aggression are fought for the supposed sake of “liberty, justice and democracy for all” in unprovoked, “pre-emptive” conquests, no less brutal than under the rule of the Caesars.

Such perspective helps us understand the truth of where we’re going as a species. Materialism, consumerism and militarism, are a dead end that can lead only to our mass annihilation, and it could be easily said that this is exactly what Christ would advise as well. What Christ would also probably say is that materialism is the emotionally insecure clinging to the material world as if it were the cure for all inner ills, when in fact our real remedy is spiritual realization. [Our world is not plagued by social ills, it is plagued by spiritual ones.] He would also criticize consumerism as the endless accumulation of far more material goods and monies, (for the sake of ego-indulgence) than are actually needed to live well. Today, products are sold more for their how they will make their owner look, than for what they actually do at a reasonable cost. A persons’ materialism, (synonymous with greed) is directly proportional to the degree of their inner spiritual poverty. The greater the materialism and consumerism, the greater is this inner lack for which these material things are intended to compensate. But material things have not, cannot, and never will be an adequate compensation for inner spiritual and emotional lack. Nor can they compensate for grave mental illnesses that are a direct result of a lack of self knowledge.

Material things and credit cards are merely a distraction from emotional lives that are in decay and out of balance. The primary reason the modern world is filled with such fear and pain, is due to a lack of right and spiritual living, not because life is inherently “hard” or because, “nature is cruel”. Nature is actually very giving…it is humanity that has become cruel and demanding. Finally, materialism, consumerism and militarism are not only extensions of extreme inner poverty; they are a collective groping for inner relief from this pain and fear that comes from spiritual blindness. These are the symptoms of individual and social desperation. They are the reaching out by those suffocating in social lies for “things” with which to stay afloat, upon this sea of mediocrity we’ve invented for ourselves. They are the gnawing hunger of ravenous and wasting frailty, which can never be satisfied by eating, (consuming) more and more. They are the desperate squeezing of the last drops of water from the canteen of the natural, amidst the vast desert of social lies and silly religious myths. They are the screams of agony of the mentally insane from those who long for the thirst quenching truth, but who haven’t the courage nor the honesty to deal with that truth on the basis of daily lifestyle.

The only real sin is the Sacrifice of Truth.

Had Christ not been rejected by humanity, he may have been able to instill his level of consciousness into at least his disciples, if not the greater mass of humanity. This would have changed the course of history completely, and today we may well have been Masters, teachers and philosophers, rather than corporate managers, consumers and blind followers. We could well have been a race of Christs and Buddhas instead of these warring and petty simians, concerned with nothing more than self gratification, (sensation without substance) and ego glorification, (social status and fashion magazine “beauty” that is only skin-deep). Because of our lack of HONESTY in grappling with the truth which Christ, Buddha and others revealed to humanity, we have not progressed, we have digressed. Because we would rather deny, as a vast majority, rather than accept the sometimes unpleasant truth of the modern condition, we have not evolved. We have in fact become far more primitive than the so-called “primitives” of the jungle, who know at least as much to respect the Divine in Nature. Modern culture respects nothing but power as brute force, sophisticated deception, and the put-on con artistry of salesmen and priests, public speech-making by politicians who don’t mean a word they say, social drama and other insincere displays. That is why modern society will not and cannot last. If it continues on in this direction it MUST die by the same sword that it lives by. It will die miserably and in confusion, until not only is all the natural world “consumed“ in the quest for more and more without end, but so too will those who follow society, consume each other in the end. The Biblical Armageddon is an exercise in self fulfilling prophesy, one that demonstrates not the inevitably of social downfall, but the aimed at, worked for, and otherwise insisted upon DENIAL OF WHAT IS TRUE.

For those who sincerely seek a daily remedy for these social ills, further suggested reading can be found in the Library of the World Mind Society at http://www.eoni.com/~visionquest Read the following articles;

1) Truth, Most Dreaded and Useful, Bibles Do Not Equal Wisdom, The Survivalists’ Guide for the New Millennium, Software for the Mind, and Of Master and Disciple.

With Love and Clarity,

Matthew Webb visionquest@eoni.com
_________________
The Intent of the Master is the mastery of intent



Founder of the World Mind Society http://www.eoni.com/~visionquest

[truth]

Hi Theressa,

It's funny you should mention essays, because I've had mixed results in this first year, my philosophy ones, even though I've learnt and applied masses of knowledge, have been appalling (I'm not one for limiting my form of expression to logic alone) whereas the sociology ones have been really good. Saying that, whatever the result, my biggest lesson has been to bring myself to my work. Work, rest or play, it is all part of the same fantastic journey - finding magnificence in the ordinary makes life extraordinary.

Initially, because I knew nothing, I worked on the regurgitated education process - attend lectures, learn as much as I could and regurgitate it in the exams and essays. The second semester was different, because I'd gained a level of comfort having become accustomed to the basics. That fine layer of comfort enabled me to regain faith in what I was doing by going to University at my age - learning what I need to know in order to go forward. Don't get me wrong, it would be the proudest day of my life to walk onto that stage in that cap and gown, I don't know why, but just the idea of that gets me all a-tingle, but truly, at the end of the day that is not the be all and end all. I know that what I'm doing is right, my whole life tells me that it's right, but there is no way I can prove it - only time will tell.

So, back to essays. You are doing what you are doing because it is so right that you do it, but setting your mind on your idea of your goal (good marks, the degree), clouds the view and adds unnecessary pressure. You too are there to bring about change that will help all other students who follow. Theressa you are there to bring yourself to your studies, to help change the view of the possibilities of social work and help shape its future. If you only focus on your degree, yes you will succeed, but what we really want to see is you putting you into your studies and bringing them to life... bringing the future of social work to life now!

On a practical level, first and foremost, understand the question - if it's not clear what the question is asking, ask your tutor for guidance. Once you understand the nature and theme of the question, bring it to life in your heart and get excited about wanting to answer it. Essay writing is a great way to expand our understanding of a subject - to work out our own interest in the subject. And that is the key. When you think about it we could fill volumes answering questions, any question really, so when answering a question the only way to limit it is to limit it to the area in which we are particularly interested. Saying that, always be balanced in your approach. Whatever has been written in the past has been written for good reason and with the backing of good intention, albeit coloured by the author's own prejudice and preference. Always try to see both sides of the argument, even when you are passionately opposed to it - somewhere it will have an element of validity and being able to find that validity and still argue against it will display real intellect.

I appear to have waffled on a little, but you've hit a real passion of mine - education isn't regurgitation of what has come before rather grateful appreciation of it coupled with our own personal take on the subject - that way we learn how to bring our self to life in our studies... I've started to waffle again!

Good luck with everything, you are so needed in what you want to do, now this minute and the next, tomorrow and for the whole of life to come.

Love it! And don't forget, the books/journals etc you will need in order to answer your questions will find you - stay true, stay calm and they'll be there.

Hugs,
Pat

[truth]

Hi Rishi,

You must have posted yours when I was posting mine - spooky huh! Let's see what you had to say versus what I had to say and let's see if we can find some truth.

Okay, I have to stop you right there in the first paragraph. You've closed your eyes to life's possibilities by envisaging a probable one. Major, major sticking point here, because as soon as we fall into the trap of believing the same old same old will happen in the future, we make it happen. For example, on what truths is this probable future based? You've mentioned that humans can do no better than what we have done in the past, so does that mean there is no point in trying to better ourselves? Oh, wait a minute, finally the penny has dropped - do you think that you personally are in some way having to deal with the same circumstances in life now that Christ did then? That you are more special than everyone else, and that if you don't convince people of the error of their ways it will all be yet another futile waste of life?

Well, if that's the case, you have much to learn with regard to how to live life for the betterment of all - not just those who agree with/pander to you. This thread has for me provided a fine example as to how progressive life can be when we accept it in its entirety.

Theressa, I hope you don't mind me using your post as an example. Had Theressa rejected the education system, because from all intents and purposes, it could have been seen to be holding her back from what she really wanted to do, she too could have come up with your type of argument. For example, 'Education is programming our children to conform to the master that is the consumer capitalism'. She could have screamed and shouted her protests from the tallest buildings, but what did she do instead? She took responsibility for the consequences of her actions that brought her to decide what she really wanted to do in life. Theressa knows that we have to work with what life provides in order for us to bring ourselves to, and help create, the life we really want to live. It is not easy - the short-term comfort, 'easy' option is to bury our true selves and conform (your mates might be doing this with you, but we all do it sometimes), the destructive option is to fight life the way it is and try to make it conform to the way we want it to be (Hitler, Mugabe, The Romans, us all at times), or what I like to think of as being the progressive option is to find our way of working with it all (Theressa, Christ, possibly). You might not think this possible now, but when we connect to and work with the natural laws, we connect with a force that enables us to bring the spiritual to life in the most unlikeliest of places... even in the midst of battle, whatever form our life's conflicts take...

Which way is best? The one that suits us best for now. We can't tell people how to live their lives - would you like to be told how to live yours? There you go then. Live and let live. In this present modern day life when we are disparate creatures all trying to bring ourselves to work together for the betterment of all, focusing on life's problems alone blinds us to the truth: that life has also provided us with the solutions to those problems. When we approach them with Theressa's attitude, we're well on our way to finding our answers and bringing more of ourselves to life.

The rest of your words are good and strong, now it's up to you to do the hard bit - put all those fine words into practice in your own life I believe the term is to 'walk the talk' - patience, humility, honesty and integrity every moment of every day. Words are easy, we all know right from wrong, we can easily tell when others have gone astray, but do we apply those ethics in every moment of our life? That's the goal.

Something else to bear in mind... Jung wrote that the true self was the Christ element. That's everybody's true self. My mission is to help bring that true self to life in everyone. Although the Romans 'rejected' Christ's teachings, Christ on the other hand accepted wholeheartedly all aspects of life. Admittedly he got a bit uppity in the temple, but he was human after all... as are we all.

[Theressa]

Wow wow wow Truth,

Bringing ME to the Social Work system I'd never thought of it like that. Yes you said it bringing ME exactly as I am. My take on what you said is:

You are telling me that my influence on this course benefits the whole and the course benefits and makes me think and question my thoughts and ideas. The interconnectivity. The university is a micro level of the universe. So I am there to shape and be shaped. I may not know now how i will be shaped or shape but this process will be happening.

So if I end up on that stage getting a degree certificate which is a 1st, 2.1, 2.2 or 3rd is less important than the impact i will have had on social work and social work would have had on me.

Wow what an honour! I guess this journey will take me to where the universe needs it to take me. On Gods time, not joanne's. This journey has brought all my fears out on the table, all my weaknesses are lay bear, Who I am is there for all to see. I could have walked away many times and said this is painful or I could face the pain and feel the pain and keep going. For the pain is only an illusion.

I know my inner strength and determination over rode my fears recently and got me to an exam. I know I have the courage to have ago. It reminds me of some years ago when I left my daughter's dad. I was so afraid and felt I didn't have the tools. When I look back at how independent and courageous I am now I can say this journey truly made me who I am today!

I truly care about being in a position to be able to truly facilitate change in others lives. I now know where ever I am in the universe my presence will be influencial in the way spirit intends.

These words have come at just the right time to push me on and uplift me. They reflect my passion inside.

I never had the benefit of a top class education in the beginning. But, I learnt to be independent. I never had the best conditions in my home life but I survived. The trials I have overcome have been many and I have started from where I am at many times. But, I've always moved forwards. I have experienced some things that are painful (as many have). I came from disadvantaged background, BUT none of this takes away my passion for being able to influence and show loving care and attention to those who are even more disadvantaged than me. If my only reward is that i get to be an example of someone who despite the disadvantage took what they had and did something positive with it and did whatever was possible and took all the help she could then it will have been worth it!!!

I guess sometimes we don't know how we've helped people with random acts of kindness but to have helped create a ripple is an honour.

Thank you Pat, thank you so much for helping to faciliatate me remembering my passion and why this academic journey is truly important to me. I get to influence the thinking of others and they get to influence me. Whether I can let my tutor see this is immaterial for my spirit and myself know i have been influenced and my thinking has and that is what matters! That is what truly matters.

My intention is to use my time to help others to find themselves and use their resources to the best of their abilities and this is the same as university is doing for me. It is allowing me to use what I have to the best of my abilities.

The words could keep flowing but i need to get back to revision. But thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

Love
Theressa xxxxx

[sushil_yadav]

rishi,

In the course of my interactions with activists on internet I have come across a large number of individuals, groups and organizations which are based in the state of oregon. Is there some reason behind the higher density of activists in this region?

sushil_yadav
PowerSwitch
EnviroLink
StrategyTalk
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[truth]

Hi Theressa,

What a wonderful post - such energy and passion - I can already feel the amazing impact you are going to have on fellow students, tutors and lecturers alike, let alone the impact that you will have on the future of the social services in this country... yay! It's so not easy, so whenever you feel compelled to get in touch please do - because it will be right for me for you to do so too... and I'll do the same with you.

We must also thank the Sushil's and the Rishi's of this World, because their need to share only their blinkered truth of doom and gloom, fires our passions... thank you gents. Yes, I know that what we are doing might seem trivial, but you know what? It is real progress. We are working with the whole of life to bring all the good to life. Yes, you can continue with your battles 'against' if you like, but sooner or later you too will want to realise that your battles 'against' are merely battles with yourselves. We all get angry and frustrated with life - the real lesson to learn is that anger and frustration is not with the outside world but with our self. Our self is telling us what we must do, but the life we see, blinkered by our fears and insecurities, makes it seem impossible - whenever we try to shortcut the system by imposing our compromised will on others, we compromise our self and life and create further turbulence... and so the same old same old continues... it's time for real progress, it might seem impossibly slow, but those ripples travel far and wide.

Activism can only be progressive when it is an activism 'for ...'. What do you really want? Is it an impossible dream, or a reality waiting to happen? Seems a shame to me to not at least give it a go and see what happens. Go on lads, really believe that you can do what you really want to do. It's time at last to stop fighting other people's battles and instead work out what you are really all about. Life doesn't suit? Why doesn't it suit you? What is it in your core that's telling you that you are more than the life in which you find yourselves? It doesn't fit this life at all does it, and that is why the prospect of bringing it to life is scary.

Go on, give it a go - for all our sakes - dig down deep and search out what your life is meant to be truly about - be the change you want to see in the world (Gandhi). We're all here to help...

Thank you, thank you, thank you all,
Pat

[Shamana]

I really don't know why I'm bothering to write this, because there won't be an honest answer, but my question is to Truth and Theressa....How do you live with yourselves? This is the CELESTINE FORUM, it's about energy and how we psychically effect each other. How do you imagine posturing and BS feel to everyone? You are trying to put out a show of such goodness and positivity, even though what has been pointed out is just straightforward and honest, and shows how much is dying around us, and with your bs you are sending out a sickening/dishonest vibe. This is just true, it isn't a judgement. You can lie with words, but the energy doesn't lie!!!!!

Going to school, paying taxes, living the DREAM(?), are all just elements of being a part of the corruption, greed, lies, facades and low consciousness. ANYONE who says it feels good out there in the world at large is LYING!!!!! It is full of fear and it hurts. If this is negative, then you are the one with the negative outlook, not me, because I am just being honest and matter of fact!

It was pointed out that 3 SPECIES GO EXTINCT EVERY HOUR! (Honestly, I have read that it is more like 7, but 3 is bad enough) and all you can do is ignore it, and talk about educational degrees. So once again...don't try to bs me with your look at the bright side...you can't look at the bright side if you don't honestly look. Look at all the facts and then assess how to proceed, not make up that all is or will be ok and then act like nothing is truly happening in the world. You may fool others, but I don't go by words, I go by vibe and action.....YOU DON'T FOOL ME!!!

Go on say this is harsh and negative.....it is straightforward and the truth....what have you got to say ....to the fact... that 3 species go extinct every hour?

Also be honest and acknowledge that my vibe is one of passion for truth, not anger. This is not a personal issue....the world/planet is at stake!!!!

[truth]

Shamana,

The thing is that when we read or confront something in life that hurts us (opposite to energising us) it isn't the messenger or the message that hurts us rather how our personal preferences and prejudices interpret that message. One indication of the problem is your use of the 'you don't fool me'. Why is that important to you if I am, as you describe, a lying waster? Do you find my writing dangerous? What scares you about my words?

If you don't like the way I write, read William James, 'The Will to Believe', you might connect better with him - American 'male' philosopher... he recognised a long, long time ago the effects of the human fear of being duped and went on to provide strong reasons for having faith.

My problem is that the World has been allowed to be ruled by that fear of being duped - we don't trust ourselves to want to get the best out of each other in order to learn how to live in peace with each other...no wonder progress is so slow... no wonder we're only just learning how to become aware of living in accordance with the natural laws... I honestly believe that the World's problems do not rest with the peaceful transformism that I'm trying to get a handle on, rather the aggressive rejectionism that stops us from moving on... that stops quiet voices from having a go.

You write because deep down you know that we, as well as you, are part of the solution... we're patient, we'll wait... and do what we can when we can to further the cause of peace.

'The greatest discovery of my generation is that a human being can alter his life by altering his attitudes of mind' ... William James

I guess it's up to us to choose the attitude we want... peaceful or warring.

[littlebird]

Well said Truth,
I am also one who would rather trust and take a chance of being fooled, knowing perfectly well that it is the con who will ultimately suffer his own consequences. You know, a pig returns to its own sow.

Rishi,
You really do give man way tooo much credit over the power of God.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Now, when Pilate said he had the power to crucify Jesus;

John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above, therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

As for free will, Jesus words were, FORGIVE THEM FATHER FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO. Because Jesus knew it was His Fathers will that he came to do!!!

These are hard truths that not all can handle at this time, but our God is a patient God indeed.
_________________
God is Love

[rishi]

Truth, Littlebird, Theressa....I have a simple, straightforward question for each of you, and I see no reason why you can't answer it in the same fashion.

I've thought a great deal about what's been said here, and before I comment on anything else, I want to know what you reply to the following;

Do you believe that having more money and owning more expensive things, makes you a better person than those who have less money and own less expensive things?

This is the basic definition of "success" in consumer society. Since you are absolutely determined to defend and support that paradigm, it seems likely to me that your answer to the above question must be "yes".

If you talk around the question, or give vague, non-committal answers, or off-topic replies, "as though" you're answering, then I'll just ask it again and again.

So let's save some time and effort, and be honest to start with...
_________________
The Intent of the Master is the mastery of intent



Founder of the World Mind Society http://www.eoni.com/~visionquest

[truth]

No

If you are interested in more depth of reasoning:

Those who do will only learn otherwise in their own time. In the meantime, who can be the judge of what 'they' do? At this stage of our human development we all own some form of property, be it a computer, pushbike or whatever...

You interpret consumer society as being all evil, whereas I can appreciate the benefits it has brought to life to date, being a certain level of comfort in an uncomfortable world. Most philosophers agree in the concept of Maslow's hierarchy whereby humans must first attain a level of self comfort before being able to look over the parapet to see how they can contribute selflessly to life. Nobody else can determinine somebody else's comfort level - it is for them to decide.

So a categorical no, but also no one can decide how much others 'need' before they can progress from the aesthetic to the ethical and then onto the spiritual.

It's that same old problem - do we really have to wait until others have decided to give before we give ourselves, or can we be the first to give? Scary prospect, but the only way we'll progress is if as many as possible take the lead and just do it...

[littlebird]

Dear Rishi,

No, not at all. I am a very simple person, who was raised in the Catholic church. My dad was a truck driver and we lived a modest lifestyle. As long as I can remember, Jesus was my hero, but I noticed the church was full of contradictions as to what Jesus taught. So as an adult, I left the church and I studied on my own. I agree with alot of what you say, but, I do not live by blind faith any longer. Jesus Christ is very real, and more than a saviour. It was through him that God created all there is, so is it not fitting that He is also our saviour? I reckon so.

I believe all is of God and all is One, and that one Is found in Jesus Christ, the Son Of God. The atonement of his blood is very very real. Now, if it wasn't for the foundation I received from the Catholic church, I'm not so sure I could of been prepared for what some might call a spiritual initiation, a testing of sorts. The fire of God. Hard to explain unless one has experienced it. I think some who have failed this test suffer from mental illness, and I am so thankful that I put my trust in Christ. Or rather He in me. So, I have compassion as He did for those who are still blinded and suffer, and think he was just "another master" as you teach. But, it is God who calls us and draws us near to him, I am just a helper.....

As far as riches, it is God's will to give us the desires of our heart, depending on what that is and God will have mercy on whom he chooses. Again, not up to me. I just long for the day when all will come unto the knowledge of our great God. We are well on our way.

Peace and mercy, Lisa,
as one who humbly received much mercy
_________________
God is Love

[Shamana]

Truth wrote:

"Those who do will only learn otherwise in their own time. In the meantime, who can be the judge of what 'they' do?....

Nobody else can determinine somebody else's comfort level - it is for them to decide."

I will tell you who can decide and who/what can judge.... it is the Earth. How much evidence do you need to show you that our way of life is contributing or the cause of the destruction of 3 species every hour and of the earth in all it's glory?

By the way, you never answered my question about the 3 species that go EXTINCT every hour.

Humans are NOT the center of the universe. They are only a very very small part of it. They are also a part of nature. Nature is not there to be "of service" to them, in fact, we have a responsiblity to It.

How much is enough? How much is too much? Just look around you.....look at the forests being destroyed, the draining of the resources of the earth, the overuse of soil, the genetic engineering of foods and it's nutrients. Then look at how societies values and lifestyles, aka consumerism, is the cause of all the destruction. Just take an honest look, a truly honest look, if you dare. Only if one is honest, will one See for themselves that consumerism and it's demands upon Nature are killing and destroying it. You talk of being patient......I ask you....can the earth wait that long?

You say the earth will heal itself or take care of itself....I ask you can it heal itself upon a parasite that is eating it alive? I think not! Only when we take stock of what is happening...no matter how judgmental or negative it may "sound", and be totally honest about it, can we hope to help heal the earth and get back to our true source/essence which is a part of nature, not it's "owner" and "destroyer".

[Theressa]

Shamana,

Your opinion of me and what I do is okay with me. I won't even try to argue with your view of me. The fact that you say you know my energy and its level and seem negative about me is your view.

What about the negative thought forms that you are adding to the universe? Are they not negative?

Things are evolving and the universe is intelligent. We are all the UNIVERSE and since we are all the universe manifesting then isn't REALITY the universe unfolding?

I won't be angry to you because whatever i do to you affects the whole and that includes me.

I don't process to be any better than the whole i belong to. I act in ways to share my time and help people access resources. Paradoxically I control the whole by what i do and so does everyone else. I can concentrate on my actions. Yes I am in the system, we all are. Unless you are going to change the system and all the minds what do you want me to do?

Actions speak louder than words so what are you doing apart from voicing words????

I don't pretend to be anything but my own words, actions and thoughts, this is who i am. No pretense. I do what feels intuitively right for me.

I believe and know that the universe is intelligent and if i am following my intuition then i am being true to who i am.

Souls choose the bodies they are born into, so its not my business what each soul/body does.

I do not come here to pretend to be good or otherwise. I come here to share my views and current understandings with others and through this increase my awareness.

So when r u going to be meeting with the world leaders to CHANGE their actions and stop the destruction???? Will I get an answer. Or are you just words?

May you find peace within your own heart and then you'll help it manifest in the outer

Theressa

[Theressa]

Rishi,

I think money is a necessary energy. I do not believe having more money has anything to do with goodness. Its people's intent and actions that matter. I don't agree it is good to exploit people for money.

I do what my intuition guides me to do. I trust the intelligence of the universal source. The universal source knows the way and I and other humans are not aware of the unfolding that is choreographied in each moment. I therefore do not judge what is happening on the outside.

I believe we are eternal beings and that includes animals.

Peace be upon you
Theressa