Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[truth]

I'm sorry that you were sold that 'impossible dream' - dig deep and your heart will reveal your true one.

Our dreams aren't short cuts to quick fixes in life, they are there for the long-term. It might seem impossible for you to accept just now, but your life's dream is there for real, waiting patiently for you to bring it to life by believing in... not its possible physical manifestation, because that we are not meant to know, rather its spiritual intention, which will bring about its manifestation in the most creative and magical of forms.

Sweet dreams...

[rishi]

Truth;

You might want to look again at what is being said here. Seems to me that the message is being glossed over yet again by a lot of snuggle-huggle-warm-and-fuzzy-speak and that this is obscuring much of the point.

Sushiel said;

"For several decades environmentalists have been warning modern society that ecosystems are getting destroyed - that consumerist lifestyle is not sustainable.

But modern society which was busy chasing progress, growth and development did not listen. It refused to believe there was any environmental crisis or problem. It said science and technology will always find a solution - if earth gets destroyed we will move on to another planet.

Impossible dreams were sold to people in the name of science and technology. "

//////////

Now, this is an important point in it's own right, and I for one don't want to see it diminished.

If I were to summarize this message, it would be to say that;
1) the concepts of "progress" "growth" and "success" are all LIES that don't have an ounce of value or truth to them, and these ARE destroying the world very rapidly.
2) that consumerism is a cancer upon this world, and is just insanity and mass suicide re-named.
3) that it is assumed we are above nature, can do whatever we want, and somehow science will come to our rescue in the end, so that humans can just go on living as they always have, (with maximum waste, destruction and confusion).

In other words, Truth, this post isn't about "impossible dreams" in the new age cuddle-speak context. It's about mass delusion that is nothing short of species-wide suicide, and all in the name of fashion magaiznes, TV sitcoms, primitive egotism and corporate/private greed. This is an important post and it deserves to be addressed upon it's own honest basis, through it's own obviously-true points, and not be reduced as things almost always are here, to the usual insincere new age blabbering.
_________________
The Intent of the Master is the mastery of intent



Founder of the World Mind Society http://www.eoni.com/~visionquest

[truth]

I'm writing this straight after I read your response. Needless to say I'm greatly disappointed that you could find no love, respect or truth in the words I wrote. Yet again, the words from my heart provoked a stream of abuse... and you wonder why the world is in the state that it is...

... perhaps you ought to meditate on that awhile...

[Shamana]

I have been watching the discussions for quite a while now and I feel compelled to say that the most straightforward, honest and loving replies have come from Rishi. He seems to want to impart the truth of the matter, irregardless of what others think of him. I wholeheartedly thank him for this.

We are responsible for all our actions, be it personal, group or global. We (the human species) are here to be the caretakers of the earth and we are failing miserably at our "job".

Facts that were listed by Rishi:

"If I were to summarize this message, it would be to say that;
1) the concepts of "progress" "growth" and "success" are all LIES that don't have an ounce of value or truth to them, and these ARE destroying the world very rapidly.
2) that consumerism is a cancer upon this world, and is just insanity and mass suicide re-named.
3) that it is assumed we are above nature, can do whatever we want, and somehow science will come to our rescue in the end, so that humans can just go on living as they always have, (with maximum waste, destruction and confusion). "

I can find no false statement here and for someone to state this so clearly and directly is the ultimate show of love. To care for what is truly happening and NOT what we wish were happening is sane, intellegent and caring.

Let's take stock of what the world we live in has become as a result of our own hands. Let's be honest about the world situation. Let's really show love, intellegence, sincerity and honesty and actually look at the facts and DO SOMETHING!!

Now what could be more worthy, honorable and loving than that?

[rishi]

Truth;

I'm writing this straight after I read your response. Needless to say I'm greatly disappointed that you could find no love, respect or truth in the words I wrote. Yet again, the words from my heart provoked a stream of abuse... and you wonder why the world is in the state that it is...

///////

"Greatly disappointed"? Nonsense...you just don't like honesty.

You're right, I don't see any love, respect or truth in your statement. I think the whole rhetoric is just a bunch of BS that aims to do one thing...show what a wonderful, caring person you are, when in fact you couldn't care less about the world situation, and don't even really want to hear about it.

Want to know what effect your comments have on me? They show me that you don't care about the world situation, and that you have no respect for the truth whatsoever. They show not that you love truth, but what lengths you'll go to to avoid what is being truthfully pointed out. They show me that you're trying to diffuse the meaning of the post and the whole thread, by talking a lot of phony nonsense that doesn't mean ANYTHING, not one thing!

The same goes for the majority here!

If this post of yours and others like it really mean something, then you tell me what that is. Give me some real and meaningful DETAILS, (NOT what you might see quoted, yet again, from some Deepok Chopra or Wayne Dyer book) and not just some vague "spiritual" generalities that have absolutely nothing to do with the thread. I want to know what your words really MEAN, what real and practical value they have, ESPECIALLY in the context of a world that is out of control and rapidly collapsing...
_________________
The Intent of the Master is the mastery of intent



Founder of the World Mind Society http://www.eoni.com/~visionquest

[livinglight]

It is curious to see the variants in what people saw in the origional posting and each opinion is valued but i fear some greater point has been missed. it is not a case of 'we can't stop working' it is more about how work has replaced certain aspects of our lives that need to be filled. I know this sounds very strange from someone caught smack in the middle of physical work and mental work (the wine industry) but i find that there are people who work for their own reasons. Unfortunately we are seeing an increasing number of work-o-holics where they are so wraped up in the illusions of ego and glamour that their only satisfaction in life is found in the workplace- and employers/large corporations tend to create this and encourage it.
an example is a firend who worked as a phone answerer for a comunications company -who got depressed if she didn't meet her quota -was severely reprimanded if she didn't meet the outragous deadlines and in the end had a mental breakdown ending in suicide.
The industrialised world is forced down one road, where money is the only comon ground. We need money to survive in todays world and that is the knife in the side of christ. Until we can break ourselves away from this need for money we can not hope to revive ourselves and our earth. Think back to the prophesy and how we steal energy from each other, when we work we expend our energy, when money is the symbol for the expendature of that energy then what larger plan do you see? The greedy men are greedy because their subconcous recognises that money is a physical manifestation of peoples energy.
Look at the nineth insight, where society recognises the redundancy of money, that one doesn't need the physical representaion...

To step back yet again i address peoples need to work... is this so different from the instinctive desire to belong, the workplace can feel like an extension to the family, can encomplace the circle of friends. There are aspects of our needs that work can fill in todays world. Communities are too large, neighborhoods too close. the brain requires some sort of new definition for aquaintence. studies into social networking came to the conclusion that a single mind can cope with about a dozen close friends/relatives about two dozen good or well know aquaintences and only about a hundred generic aquaintences. (this siad some minds have the addaption of being able to store much more than this- theses are generic results) so in a society made up of hundreds of thousands of members is it really a surprise that people can no longer name every person who lives on their street- if you can- cudos to you!

The industrilised world is that necessary step. It's roots are ill founded and intentions impure but it really does seperate the people and the levels of awareness- knowing the trap is there is the first step in avoiding it. The general populace can't see past or outside of the box and if that is their modus opperandi then i leave them to it. We know when we're ready to step away from all that. It is important to remember that we are only in the early stages of the shift in conciousness, that we are lucky to have woken when we did but the vast majority of people are not ready to be woken up yet, to be woken prematurely is to send them insane.

Patience is todays golden virtue
_________________
To walk the enlightened road
To learn from the pasts that you've lived
To live in the present moment
To plan for the future and give
This leads to the ultimate life fulfillment
M S C

[livinglight]

More and more people are begining to to awaken to the sence that they have been lied to by the big conglomorants- we don't need deisel cars, we don't need gold and jewels- the ego needs those things but do we need the ego? The ego responds to peer pressure and peer pressures are founded by the invisible sources that drive societyand advertising is only the public front!

The industraliased cunsumerist society developed as a result of this. Money became the physical representaion of peoples energy. it's there in the insights that we can claim earth energy and unfortunately this instictive knowledge has been misinterpreted in the eyes of the greedy.

When the greedy found they couldn't get enough energy/money from people they would have gone through a 'lost' period. The instinctive knowledge of earth energy would probably have risen here and this was misinterpreted by the subconcious notion that energy is money is energy. Therefore earth energy could also be captured in the dollar.
Therefore wind energy can be captured in the dollar, wave energy, solar energy. The money corrupted mind works in a much more, horrifyingly predictable, way.

I see an ad for the golden arches, followed by an ad for mulivitamines, followed by an ad for toothpaste (which cures our wearing enamel), followed by an ad for life insurance, then funeral insurance- what message are they actually sending to us ?!?! It's alright to eat mac-chew-den-spew if you take your mulivitamines? Poor diet is removing your tooth enamel but this product can put it back? go figure!
_________________
To walk the enlightened road
To learn from the pasts that you've lived
To live in the present moment
To plan for the future and give
This leads to the ultimate life fulfillment
M S C

[littlebird]

Dear Truth,

Your words were right on the mark for me. Funny how there are different levels of spirituality and openness to higher ideals. In James book, Secret of Shambala, the ones who were ready to ascend alittle higher, at first NEEDED generaters to help them manifest required energy. Slowly.... they were learning to rise above the 3D world. Not all could experience this at that particular moment in time.

It was suggested in this thread that we should do something......we can rise above, sit on the plateau a while and ponder or we can be dragged back down.

Truth, in my eyes, your spirit shines above and bright!

Love, littlebird
_________________
God is Love

[livinglight]

you mentioned how we might ascend above the 3D world... what do you think the 4th dimention might be? i feel that it is density or weight. evryone has their own density. This is not an intellectual referance but i suppose it may be veiwed as one where the less dense you are the clearer your alternative sight...
_________________
To walk the enlightened road
To learn from the pasts that you've lived
To live in the present moment
To plan for the future and give
This leads to the ultimate life fulfillment
M S C

[eaglesoul]

A simple life is a desired goal for all of those awaken to the spiritual ,the mind , yes oriental thought has warned us for centuries of the illussions we create...consumerism, yes , we , each one of us as a member of society participates in it, more or less,depending on consciouness...
.can i remind you of Francis of Assisi , many , many years ago ? what was his solution to the same problem ?
consumerism , violence , destruction capacity has been with us since the beggining....I celebrate your passionate stand , the info is good ,tks , the intention to put us to think and share about this is important ...
I agree we better slow down and feel....but that is a task that is up to everyone in its own freedom to do , and psichollogically speaking...is a huge task....needs a body-heart-mind healed or willing to ...humans will always run away from what is uncertain, unknown , uncontrollable...as emotions could be.
We need education to learn to trust our emotions....or a huge upheaval in our lives...the 2d path is more common , does`t that says something?
the illussion of secutity that consumerism brings , is what keep us buying what we dont need ...James Redfield touches these subjects in the Celestine insights quite well...I guess if we invite him to this discussion and work through the Celestine Journals...quoting some of very interesting things there ...we may learn a lot ,and you that began this post can ease your anguish ...
we can only work on ourselves , each of us...anything else , is more or less , the same thing , different dress...an attempt to control....many of us working on ourselves...guess...we can create a difference!
and that is this site is about , don`t u think fellows CV`s?
the only path I`ve found to slow the mind in a world that runs ? to me is meditation ...as old as the Buda himself.... it works for me ..in spite of the speed outside my meditation room...
prayer is another tool , as old as the times we`ve been on Earth ...
Fear ...does put the mind into racing mood....its an old survival tool...fight or flight response .
As Gandhi said once , its a miracle that we are still here ...with all of our power and ability for violence and destruction...Love is a miracle ...and it comes through us...
That is what I can offer , I am grateful for your post.
(Sync wanted me to read this after comming from the supermarket...pondering these things in my heart....)
Namaste

[truth]

Hi Guys,

Well, I dug down deep and asked and asked for guidance and the following is the best I could come up with :-

Apologies if this detracts from the whole industrial age, destruction of the planet's ecology etc. but I've got a strong feeling that the planet will be just fine with or without us, you see it knows how to mend itself - the problem is the human element and until we stop passing the buck and blaming others for our own mistakes we will continue to make the same mistakes over and over again and we, the planet included will continue to suffer.

My mission is to work out how to deal with deeply entrenched false beliefs, because how we interact is key to ensuring we get on track for everyone.

I really do need help with this one, because I'm currently being confronted with really sticky false beliefs that people want to confront, but refuse to take the help they need, thereby consuming either other people's energy or physical resources to fill the gap. I'm torn between telling them up front what they are doing and going with the flow, which makes me feel that there is another way that I'm missing.

The dilemma is false beliefs versus real truths, or facts versus knowledge.

Rishi, you appear to be a proponent of facts, but these in themselves are not truths:

1) the concepts of "progress" "growth" and "success" are all LIES that don't have an ounce of value or truth to them, and these ARE destroying the world very rapidly.

From the above statement am I conclude that you are for regression, shrinkage and failure? I wouldn't, but if I were to look at the facts alone, it would be a valid conclusion.

2) that consumerism is a cancer upon this world, and is just insanity and mass suicide re-named.

If consumerism is a cancer should we stop eating and drinking too? I know that you don't mean that, but how do we engage those who do consume too much - bearing in mind that we all do?

3) that it is assumed we are above nature, can do whatever we want, and somehow science will come to our rescue in the end, so that humans can just go on living as they always have, (with maximum waste, destruction and confusion).

You paint a bleak picture and whilst there is much to be done, we are far removed from maximum waste destruction and confusion.

Okay, so how do we turn these facts into truths?

One thing I do know is that we can't progress without complete acceptance of the validity of the presence of all aspects of life in life. 'Being sold an impossible dream' implies conspiracy, manipulation, corruption etc. But who of whom? Everyone? No. Only the person writing the words. Do they want help? Yes. Is being pandered to help? Well, it might feel good momentarily, but it doesn't actually do any good in the long-term. We are all guilty and we are all innocent. Do any of us know the answer? No. However, I will say that conflict only breeds more conflict - the fight for energy and that in my books cannot be good for anyone.

Rishi, you have a lot of passion, but when that is unleashed as fury you consume more of the World’s resources than you need. How does it make you feel to badmouth strangers? On the other hand, complete acceptance of all that frustrates enables us to direct our passion towards re-energising the world. Remorselessness is a real issue. Rishi you've badmouthed new-agers (whatever that might be) on a number of occasions and, unless I've missed it, never ever shown any remorse for your unkind words and this I feel is a real problem for men, I know, I know, it is a generalization, but you asked for truth and the following insight is one that I’ve recently put into practice. Let me explain,

Men have for centuries been called upon to fight and kill. Now to me this bypass of a fear of dying has downgraded all other fears and insecurities to the point where they are seen as a ‘normal part of life’ and unimportant. Are they? I've noticed that in general when men are hurt their initial reaction is to hurt back, which is a real issue when the hurt they feel is nothing to do with the other person at all rather it is caused by their own fears and insecurities, those that they’ve downgraded as being unimportant, because they are not life and death. Bear with me here...

Think about it. Say I have a fear of religion, when confronted with that fear in the form of a churchgoer seeing that I would benefit from their church's help, my fear of religion would impact my stress levels – what to do fight or flight? Now, if I react by fighting and I blame the churchgoer for ‘making me fight’, I've excused myself from being abusive, there is no need for remorse and my fear of religion remains intact awaiting its next encounter. If on the other hand I realise that whenever I do stress that is my self telling me that I have an issue to deal with, then I'm halfway towards getting it fixed.

The theory being that when we truly want guidance and help we make it seek us out. However, when it turns up and we do not like the form in which that help manifests itself, there’s a good chance that we will reject it. It’s as though we have an inner guide that knows what we need to confront in life in order to bring the true self to life – there really is no one to blame but ourselves when we disregard those opportunities.

Rishi you are asking you to deal with an issue that has manifested itself in me, just as much as I’m asking me to deal with my issue that has manifested itself in you. I’ve done what I feel is the absolute right thing to do and you too will do what is the absolute right thing for you to do, but that doesn’t mean that we won’t make mistakes along the way, which is good, because that is the way we learn how to become more self-aware and life-aware.

So guys, the future of the world might well depend on people, men in particular, stopping playing the tit for tat game and instead turning their attention to the true cause of their pain and discomfort - themselves.

What do you think?

[rishi]

Truth,

Before I answer the various points/questions you posed, I'd like you and others here to consider this bit of information from another website;

///////////

...Three species, be it animal or plant, go extinct EVERY HOUR! This situation is not okay. There are many things that each of us can do and spreading information on what to do can help. Ultimately, however, it is up to individuals to change some aspect of their daily lives in consideration for the environment.

Quote:
"We are indeed experiencing the greatest wave of extinctions since the disappearance of the dinosaurs," said Ahmed Djoghlaf, head of the UN Convention on Biological Diversity.

"Extinction rates are rising by a factor of up to 1,000 above natural rates. Every hour, three species disappear. Every day, up to 150 species are lost. Every year, between 18,000 and 55,000 species become extinct," he said. "The cause: human activities."

////////////

This is of course just a small part of the destruction being wrought by humans in the modern age, and among these are climate change, pointless war, pollution, over population and most of all consumerism, as everyone here is well aquainted with. As I've said many times before, consumerism is 1% practical and 99% an exercise in the institutionalization of product-oriented, primitive egotism. It is a false belief system, a hysterical faith in materialism at the cost and denial of literally ALL ELSE.

Yes, we are even faced with our own extinction, and if this isn't completely obvious to everyone by now, then somebody is in severe, and probably extremely selfish, denial.

As I have also pointed out here, a rejection of society, (the false ideals and goals of consumerism) is essential for individual sanity, genuine spiritual practice and our collective survival as a species. There is no ambiguity in this...the idea that each and every consumer can only find true "success" in life by being their own little emporer with their own mansion, expensive cars, luxury yacht and fancy clothes, is nothing less than suicide for human society. The earth CANNOT sustain such nonsense, particularly when greed knows no bounds, and where more dollars earned simply means more dollars wasted. In other words, modern society is like a sieve shaped like a cup, it does not increase or save or grow, it merely wastes endlessly for the sake of the shallow-minded and false ideas, found in every fashion and gossip magazine, and nearly every TV commercial.

THIS is the theme of the thread, and I need not quote all the global evidence here for the points to be made credibly. Yet you make this claim that the earth will recover with or without us, and so, this seems to imply you take the whole subject matter whimsically. What makes you think so? What makes you think extinct species at the rate of three an HOUR are replacable? And that is just what I was objecting to originally in your comments...this stuff you said about "just follow your dreams" (which you have yet to clarify the meaning of) sounds like a mix of irresponsible sentiments from an unscrupulous new age author and consumer television. Follow your dreams?...and do what, just go ahead and live however you want to, regardless of the fact that the human world is about to collapse, precisely due to such an attitude?

And here you try to reduce the whole subject matter to a gender issue, or a personal issue, (those angry mjen need to get their act together). Seems to me that the new age need to gets it's head straight, stop the sugar-coated denial and social irresponsiblity rhetoric, and address the real world such as it is. This is what spiritual practice is about, not just the tarring of every subject with sickly-sweet sentimentality and then featheirng it with warm and fuzzies, that have no practical meaning of any kind.

Also, I'd like to thank those people here who HAVE taken this important subject matter seriously, and for their thoughtful posts. I haven't responded to these because I didn't want to be redundant, but I do commend you for having a conscience and a mind to match...
_________________
The Intent of the Master is the mastery of intent



Founder of the World Mind Society http://www.eoni.com/~visionquest

[littlebird]

Yes, you can consider to rise above as to LIGHTEN UP

As a side note; Men can become very angry when they have a crush on someone also

AND I got up this morning thinking of just some of the THINGS that I appreciate;

A well made blanket, a great running classic truck, my manmade wooden plank table, super stainless steal pots and pans that still shine like new 20 years later and proper fitting clothes! These things were made all around the world and I do notice that and am thankful to those of humanity for their quality craftmanship!
_________________
God is Love

[truth]

You know this morning I awoke to finally realise that I was not on my own. It's funny because I've known this fact for a long time, but this morning, for the first time in my life, I was finally able to live it... what a relief! Knowing something and living it are poles apart, especially as far as spiritual practice are concerned.

So Rishi, you asked about dreams in your usual... uh-hum... manner - let me try to shed some light on your darkness.

The closest I've got to finding some form of proof (I know how you scientific types need academic and intellectual insight) is in respect of Frankfurt's Hierarchical Theory in the freedom and determinism debate. Frankfurt argued for two different types of human wants - the first order wants being the niceties of life (chocolate cake etc) and the second order wants being what we really want to achieve in life. He also theorised that people could be completely lacking in second order wants and he called these people wantons. However, I would argue that we all have second order wants, aka our dreams, dreams that we bury when our fears and insecurities about the so-called real world in which we live assigns them as impossible.

So what to do, keep them buried or have faith that life will enable us to bring them to life?

I set out twenty-five years ago 'knowing', but not knowing that there was more to life. I, like you, became incredibly angry and frustrated that people weren't doing what I could see to be the obvious. However, unlike you, whenever I did something about which I later thought, I should have done otherwise, I set out next time to do better. Twenty-five years later and I can finally reap the rewards. It's been a bugger of a journey, but oh so necessary.

I ask that in order to ease your journey you open your heart to all aspects of life. Too mushy for you? Shame, because it is just the most amazing way to live. When we see something wondrous we are filled with joy, when we see something horrendous, we are filled with pain and that is because we are the whole of life and the whole of life is us - we are all in this thing together, every single particle and every single atom.

Human emancipation can only be brought to life through acceptance of everything, the good, the bad, the ugly, the past, the present and the future. It is all one, everything is as equally valid as the next because there is no separation, life just is. Of course, that doesn't mean that we can't work towards changing that which isn't working for the betterment of all, you know, those selfish aspects of life. But in order to work to change, we have to accept its validity and in order to accept its validity, we have to first of all change ourselves. I didn't say it was easy!

All I can say is that if you are waiting for the scientific world to prove to you that you can live your dreams then be prepared for a long wait. Alternatively, dig down deep. What is it that you want your life to be remembered for? As soon as you find out what it is, start wanting it and believing it and life will enable you to learn to live it.

BTW did you catch Obama's speech in Cairo? There's a man who is a hair's breadth away from living his dream... like I said, the battle is being won... the more on board the better...

[Theressa]

Wow Truth once again i was drawn here today.

What do I want to be remembered for?

That I treated others the best I could in each moment. Even if that means apologising for the times when i am out of sorts. At least another knows I love them enough to apologise.

To empower another and give to them does not take any power away from me in fact it adds to the whole. We all however, are called to help based on our strengths. Some are great at listening but could never bathe another. Some are good at fixing things but find writing hard.

Yesterday I read that we are all part of choreography of the universe, the one body and thus our limitations are someone else's strength and thus a chance for them to contribute because no one is expert at all things. When we pray the universe sets about its choreography and brings people together. (just like what happened with the celestine movie)

Yesterday during spiritual healing a message came through that said "she worries enough for England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales" this is true but this is because I so want to give my best and I get frustrated when I don't have the tools to do it perfect NOW! I so much want to be a great Social Worker. I so much want to have high marks in my degree. Yes I find it hard to trust that things will miraculously come together. Especially when the feedback shows I still need to improve a lot because in 2nd Year the marks count.

If I never cared about being a Social Worker I should worry not, but I do care. I care greatly about what I offer the universe. I so keep asking for help with the essay skills, but the help doesn't seem to be helping me to move forward.

I've knocked on many doors to ask for help. I've prayed, I've visualised. I've read book after book. I am confussed that my Guides keep on telling me that this is my CALLING yet i can only make it if i get help with the academic skills????

For at University structuring an essay is the method of assessment. Any ideas on improving the structure?

These are my responses and what your post brought up for me.

Much love
Theressa xxx