How To Have A Flowing Conversation (Celestine Chat)

[MM2]

I think I will share some insight on conversation and flow. The first section will be background information and the end will be the "How To" bit.

I am a little disappointed in the level of conversation that occurs in the Celestine chat and in this forum. Please allow me to explain. This is the first time I have tried writing out these ideas and there appears to be more than I had initially thought. I do switch perspectives and am inconsistent in the 1st, 2nd, and 3 person narrative points. I can refine in a future article if this stimulates any discussion.

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It has been several years since the Celestine Chat came into existence. When I was new to the chat I was inspired by the truth that the insights held. After visiting the chat several times I began to notice that there were 2 types of people who attended the chat: Newcomers and Regulars.

Newcomers: are people who are new to the Celestine Prophecy, or new to the chatroom.

Regulars: are people who have known about the Celestine Prophecy and insights for quite some time and who frequently visit the chat room (and now forum).

My disappointment stems from the Regulars who have frequented this place for several years.

Being a newcomer, I asked several questions to the Regulars figuring the Regulars might have developed a greater understanding of the insights from being around longer. Even as a newcomer I had thoroughly combed through each line of each insight to the point of obsession, and so had a very good idea of what the insights were conveying and I noticed that there was something off about these regulars.

After several months I became extremely frustrated and sad as I figured out that these Regulars rarely speak about the insights and frequently play control dramas. They enjoy giving their opinions more than they enjoy asking questions, and they feel it is their duty to "help" you even though you have not asked for help. If you are seeking an answer, they give you unclear cliche answers suggesting that you have a problem, you are over analyzing, and that you need to relax and go with the flow.

If I did not see a great deal of the the truth in the insights, I would have left. Indeed, I believe that many newcomers leave under these exact same impressions and it concerns me as, after 9 years, I see the same Regulars in the chatroom far more than new faces. I believe there is a great deal of truth in CP and the flow that these Regulars generate is often times stagnant and not actively related to the insights.

Truly, the problem really began to stem when the Regulars began to form an "in crowd" to which newcomers sensed and were turned off from. Several topics discussed by Regulars were often personal topics to which newcomers could not relate, or inside jokes that newcomes found hard to understand without questioning. This "clique" is not how I had envisioned the 8th insight, and with the lack of new people I can only assume that the Regulars in the Celestine Chat do not embody the truth of the 8th insight and that it is a lower energy frequency that they are resonating at. These Regulars did not visit the chat in search for truth but rather for other reasons which, from my experience, has limited the flow in the Celestine Community.

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After a few years of engaging in the Celestine Chat, I noticed the flow had not changed and I had developed a rather negative reputation for trying to change the flow. I had begun talking to newcomers about what they thought about the chatroom and very often the feelings were ones of disappointment. They had felt that it was their fault for having such high expectations after reading the book, and I had partly agreed with them, but at some level I knew that there were things that could be done to more closely align with some of those expectations (for example, you would expect the conversation to atleast be focused on the Insights 50% of the time when in fact it is closer to 5% to 10% (this is speaking before there was an Insights&Flow room, to which is much more empty on a regular basis than celestine cove).

Unlike today, in the older days the Celestine Chat had only the Main Room. So there was no place to go to speak if the Main chat was being dominated by idle talk between Regulars.

After realizing that the disappointment over the Chatroom was real for many newcomers, I started developing a guide to how we could increase the flow in the chatroom and to begin embodying the 8th insight more closely. The ideas in this guide were met with strong opposition and were deemed as "confrontational" and very "interrogator" like. The Regulars felt that I was trying to control the entire chatroom by suggesting that we establish a set of rules or guidelines that Regulars (not necessarily newcomers) had to follow. Seeing how Regulars should have a higher awareness level and higher energy, they should have more responsibility to keep their energy and intentions in check by following these guidelines. Newcomers would not be expected or forced to follow these strict guidelines until they too began to see the value in them and naturally align to the truth within them. (It is important to note that the guidelines could be questions or changed if sound reason proved it beneficial). What really angered the Regulars was the suggestion that we put someone in charge like a moderator who had the power and wisdom to know when to boot another user (based on the guidlines).

TODAY, you will see on the front page before entering the chatroom, a list of rules that you must follow before entering the chatroom and you will also see that the chatroom has been entirely revamped to include moderators and other discussion rooms (Celestine Cove, Insights&Flow, Love&Laughter, Meditation&Prayer, SalonFrancais). I am reinvigorated to see these changes in the last 2 years.

To further continue these positive changes, it may be beneficial to expand on the 8th Insight and extend the rules mentioned on the main page so that it is a more thorough guide than perhaps inflexible rules. I too am cautious of instilling rules, for in a truly spiritual place, it is known that rules have limits and that there are always situations that can bring these rules to their limits or perhaps make them detrimental. Spiritually open minds must be flexible enough to deal with these difficult limits.

And so the following is an extension on the rules that I believe the Regulars and spiritually experienced should have naturally incorporated into their actions, or should now incorporate and understand. If you understand how, when and why to use the guidelines below, then you will see an increase of flow or be able to recognize and realize the state of the flow more effectively.

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HOW TO HAVE A FLOWING CONVERSATION

Consider that Plato and Socrates are about to engage in a conversation on the Celestine Chat. Plato is a Newcomer and Socrates is a Regular. Unlike normal Regulars, Socrates has refined his energy interactions and is very aware of his thoughts and actions. Here is the guide that he follows as the conversation begins. (****I had initially planned to use these two characters to provide examples but there is too much text and I will have to provide examples after)

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1.) Utilize the power of idle talk in leading to deeper conversation.
2.) In deeper conversation relate topics to the Insights.
3.) Keep balance between the number of statements vs. questions.
4.) Know your intentions behind every word. Act instead of react.
5.) Interpret the intention behind their words.
6.) Know the judgments you are making. Be fair,open minded and honest.
7.) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Know your expectations.
8.) Recognize levels of truth. Understand absolute and relative truth.

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Some of these points appear common sense and simple. Many Regulars will state that they know about these already and claim to implement them at all times during all conversations. Each point however, covers several aspects that I feel few Regulars are knowledgeable about and practiced enough to implement consistently. Socrates knows that practice makes perfect.


1.) Utilize the power of idle talk in leading to deeper conversation.

At the start of an energy interaction between 2 or more people, you will want to establish a solid energy connection with that person or people. Normally, most people are not aware, focused, or energetic enough to jump straight into a prolonged deep conversation. A Regular should generally be capable of immediate deep and prolonged spiritual conversation. A Regular should always wish to have deep and enlightening conversation in mind as if contemplating a koan. If a Regular were to enter the chat and see another Regular, there would be no necessary need for idle talk to set up the energy connection necessary for immediate and deep conversation. It would come as a Regular does not view deep spiritual conversation as something to be avoided but a worthy endeavor to spend ones energy on. Idle chat would also come naturally as the conversation balances out with the expenditure of their mental energy from prolonged and focused attention. With Regulars it does not matter if they start with idle talk or deep focused talk as both are spiritual and pursued with the insights and spirituality in mind.

With others who may not be experienced or who may not be prepared for prolonged periods of focused conversation, you will want to be considerate and ease them into deeper conversation by allowing light hearted idle talk to allow a connection to form. Once a connection is formed between you two, the other persons energy pattern will recognize your energy as positive and trust worthy. This is a necessary condition for deeper conversation to ensue as the other person will disregard and misinterpret anything you say if their mind and energy blockages perceive you as a threat. When newcomers or people with low energy close their mind to you and your words, it is generally because they are acting out of fear from an energy blockage that they haven't cleared up by going through the 6th insight.

Idle talk can skirt around these energy blockages in the other person so that you may ease into a deeper and trustworthy conversation where they will feel safe in opening up their problems and cherished thoughts to you. Once you have established this deeper connection, you may then begin to guide them into solving an energy blockage you may have become aware of.

Often, it is not possible to have a deeper spiritual conversation for prolonged periods of time if an energy blockage is present in one of the 2 people in the conversation because that energy blockage will throttle and slow the flowing of energy between you and your energy interactions will weaken and the joint focus will be lost. Therefore, it is natural for a Regular to find that most attempts at a deep spiritual conversation will end up focusing on the energy blockage of theirs or of the other person. A Regular does not have to make it their mission to dissolve other peoples energy blockages. They do not have to make it their mission to "help" other people. This will be a natural result of good flow, therefore a Regular should focus on maintaining good flow in the chatroom. " If you make it your focus to "help" people, then you run the risk of acting out of pride and limited Ego and not out of pure intention and higher being.

2.) In deeper conversation relate topics to the Insights.

In most chatrooms we would not put this limitation on ones mind frame, but it should be considered that this IS THE CELESTINE PROPHECY community. We are very open minded, but if you are here playing a large part in the flow, then you should at least understand be able to relate what is being talked about to CP the majority of the time. The sad thing is that most of the Regulars from 9 years ago STILL do not have the 11 insights even partially memorized.

It should be expected that Regulars would have the 11 insights (soon to be 12) atleast familiar in their mind at all times. If not, we can accept other truths, but the Insights are the framework and foundation to which this community is focused. It is what allows us to be so open minded as focused upon particularly in the 4th and 8th insight. It is fine to express other belief systems with different foundations, but it begs certain questions as to why you chose the CP instead of a chatroom more aligned with your beliefs and why you feel you cannot change your foundation or share it with the CP insights? If you are unwilling to speak about the CP Insights, then why are you here? It will mean that you are less likely to be moderator overtop of other Regulars who are more suited for this community.

In my experience, it is seldom that the insights are brought up even in deeper conversations. It makes one question if the current Regulars are here to take their spiritual experience to a deeper level. Socrates has familiarized himself so thoroughly with the truths in the insights that he has trouble NOT relating everything he sees to it. It is his nature to have the insights constantly flowing through his mind and to relate them to any information that passes into his mind automatically. This does not mean he is not open to interpretation of truths from different perspectives, but that he sees the simplicity and coherence in the Insights. In fact, a regular should understand the insights so well that other peoples views are either extensions or incomplete versions of CP with different wording. A masterful understanding of the insights should only allow a Regular to see the truth in what they say and what others say more clearly.

In relating back to the insights, a Regular provides a sense of unity by pulling all the perspectives that may be tossed around, back to the foundational truths expressed by the insights. In focusing on the base truths, it allows conversations to build off of the ideas already there without having to start all over. It serves as a common reference point which is important for concise conversation that does not get overly convoluted with terms and perspectives. All to often two people will be arguing over the same truth and think that they are saying opposite things when really they are agreeing on the same truth just from two different perspectives and by using different words!! This is why science has invented the International System of Units so that all the nations of the world would agree on using the same symbols so that all their math calculations were the same and consistent and were not convoluted by all the different possible interpretations which would have made progress near impossible. All their time would be spent on interpreting each others symbols instead of on the actual concepts their symbols were trying to explore. In The CP Community, the Insights are the standard. A Regular is open minded enough to use anothers symbols and terms, but if things become convoluted or hypocritical, then they shall revert to the CP to see if they can straighten things out. Perhaps they can't and the insights may need to extended too. Regulars are open to the limitations of CP currently and its refinements. If there is something shown to be better, then it will accepted as the standard. This is the product of an open and rational mind and one that is not simply dependent on the insights because they are the insights. That would be a cultish mentality.

3.) Question. Question. Question. Keep balance between the number of statements vs. questions.

This is extremely important. Questions are not utilized enough. Very very rarely has anyone come into the Celestine Community with the Art of Questioning well practiced. No regulars I have met in the past 9 years have displayed much skill here. In a conversation a person can generally do two things: make statements and ask questions.

The current Regulars make far more statements than ask questions and this is because they feel the need to look knowledgeable. They desire to be wise and so will give advise and information as if they know a great deal of what they are talking about and sometimes they DO know a great deal but often they are talking out of their ass or talking to hear themselves speak. When this happens, their words usually come out convoluted and contradictory. If you question them, it will become more apparent that they really don't know what they are talking about or are atleast more uncertain about what they speak than they previously were.

The lack of flow on a topic is due to this dominance of statements over questions. So many people are eager to give their opinion because it verifies that they know something (or so they assume) and it therefore makes them feel important whereas questions makes one appear somehow less credible, less thoughtful, less knowledgeable and therefore less important because they assume that the only use for questions is to provide information on a subject that this individual didn't previously have. So in a way they view the asking of a question as a succumbing to the idea that they don't know something and are not important enough to be taken seriously or to be included.

Another reason why there are more statements made than answers, is that it takes energy to ask good thoughtful questions and many current Regulars do not have energy levels high enough to share their energy through thoughtful questions or through deep thoughtful discussion period. They are tired and use the chat as a place to rejuvenate themselves. This is why the conversation generally gets stuck on idle talk because those taking part are not searching for truth and a deeper spiritual experience, but to boost their energy temporarily through the energy of others. When their energy is rejuvenated by others, they do not use it to bring the conversation to a deeper level because it was never their focus or intention. Instead, they leave the chat happy never really reinvesting that energy into dissolving the energy blockages that keep them dependent on idle talk for energy. This mentality is causing an imbalance in the chatroom that newcomers pick up on and are repelled by, because the flow is shallow and often times perceived as ingenuine or fake. At best it is perceived as a clique. They can tell that the real reason why the Regulars come to the chat is to GAIN not to GIVE. If everyone is coming to gain, then it causes an imbalance of outflowing energy. The chat itself never really reaches new energy levels as it is constantly being depleted as people come in, take what they want, and then leave when they get their share. This is not entirely what the 8th insight suggests we do as a group.

But if you express this to the current Regulars, they will refute it by saying that they DO in fact give back to the chat. They do so in 2 ways:

a.) keep the mood "lighthearted, funny, carefree, and friendly" so that people may enjoy themselves and feel safe

b.) when the conversations do get serious, they say they also contribute by giving their opinion and their versions of truth/ advice to try and help that person along in whatever way they see fit....

The problem here is that both of these create flow but not enhanced flow. In part a.) they use their energy to sustain idle talk and in part b.) they use their energy to make statements. Both of these things contribute to what is necessary for a good flow of the chatroom, but as we have seen, it is a limited flow. Idle talk may prevent deeper conversation and may alienate newcomers, and the abundance of statements are more selfish than helpful to another. The Celestine Chat and community in general has a kind flow but it seems to have stopped evolving or is evolving very slowly. This turns away many newcomers whose purpose for coming is to seek truth. Those newcomers that come for a temporary energy fix will be more likely to stay and thus contribute to the stagnant evolution of the flow. Newcomers seeking truth have questions, but they are not currently cherished in the CP chat. Sensing this, these newcomers leave.

The limitation created by having too many statements in a conversation also applies to questions. If you ask too many questions, it may cause energy levels to stagnate. A Regular should be aware of the energy demands of questions and prolonged thinking, and should allow for idle chat to ensue if energy levels begin burning up too quickly. You can then allow the conversation to naturally flow from deep conversation to idle chat and back again, like a dance. Like a genuine flow being lead by higher awareness levels and not by the conglomeration of lower/tired ones.


4.) Know your intentions behind every word. Act instead of react.

Here is where the real beauty behind utilizing questions comes into play. When you turn your questions in on yourself, they can cut through and dissolve energy blockages like crazy. It is the secret weapon behind the 6th insight. With online chatting, particularly in the Celestine Chat, the main means of communication is typed wording. The meaning you are trying to convey to others is therefore tied to the words you use and at lower awareness levels, it may appear that the words themselves are the most important part of clear communication. But a true Regular understands that it is the source of the word, the root choice behind it that is the source of clear and flowing communication. It is the intention behind the words that is most important.

By focusing inwards and using the power of questions, an individual can become keenly aware of their intentions by questioning the reason behind their actions or thoughts. Indeed, a Regular should question why they are choosing each word as each word carries the ability to affect anothers energy field. A true Regular would have made it such a habit to know themselves and their intentions, that they would subconsciously question every action they made and every thought they had. It would be an automatic response to question oneself before questioning another because in knowing oneself, you may then have a foundation to question others.

The importance of knowing your own intentions comes into play when you would like to understand how your energy may affect and flow with another persons energy. Knowing your own intentions will allow you to understand your energy and the effects it has on you and may have on others. For example, words and questions can be used to either lower anothers energy level or to raise it but how are you to know which one? You can know by first questioning the reason why you chose such words and then examine whether they align with raising or lowering another persons energy. You can also question the questions you ask to understand what effect you are trying to generate with such questions. Am I acting out of love or fear? What is it about the way I'm acting/thinking that makes me believe it is out of love or it is out of fear? What am I fearful of and does it relate to the action I might have taken?

When you are fully aware of your intentions, then you may then begin to break free of the subconscious reactions that are programmed into your mind from years of human experience. When your conscious mind makes it a habit to examine the emotions, thoughts and actions being generated by its subconscious programming, then it may then begin to transcend such automatic REACTIONS, and begin to consciously ACT and meld its own actions and begin to reprogram its subconscious programming so that it aligns more closely with the intentions and values it wishes to express. You are no longer a slave to your subconscious programs, biological instincts and are therefore much less easily controlled, manipulated and impulsive. Every action you make you make with clear intention. There are no more random meaningless actions for you and in this way you become more aware and more in tune with the principle that is synchronicity. When you are in tune with synchronicity, then you are experiencing higher dimensions of flow.

Through intention you may know yourself and then know how to shape your spirit through the tools that exist to you in the Realm of the Relative, or here in the 3rd dimensional universe. These tools are words when online. You are limited in your communication to these words. You cannot use your body language, tone of voice and unless you are telepathic, you cannot yet use your thoughts. You are stuck using words when in chat. In real life, you would take all these tools into account when communicating. When you know how to use your tools, then you can shape the flow
more powerfully to your intentions. It will become clearer to you when you are actually saying or doing something with yourself in mind, or when it is truly for the other person. This is necessary for good flow.


5.) Interpret the intention behind their words.

In a 2 person conversation, 50% of the flow is your responsibility and 50% of the flow is their responsibility. A Regular should know this and know how to utilize their 50% so that the other may be able to express a large fraction of their 50%.

A Regular understands that no matter how good they are, or how well they flow in themselves, flow can still stagnate because the other person can choose to stagnate it, either consciously or through subconscious energy blockages. The best a Regular can do is try to open up and help express the higher self in the other person so that they are able to bring out the full potential of the 50% of the flow they are responsible for. You cannot control them, but knowing your intentions and how to effectively utilize the tools you are given, you may shape and influence that other persons energy so that their higher self emerges more quickly to utilize more flow.

In order to help bring out the higher being in the other person and have them begin acting like a true Regular in the Chat, one must recognize not only their intention but the state and intention of the other being. This will require that one must try and look through the eyes of the other person and do their best to empathize with that other persons view point. When you are able to effectively empathize with the other person, you may tap into and experience their perspective through your own thoughts. This is important as once you understand their perspective, you will gain more insight into their intentions which will tell you why they are doing and saying the things they are. One you understand the motivation behind the words they choose, you can then begin to formulate thoughtful questions designed with your clear intention. Perhaps you find that after empathizing, you suspect that their real intentions behind a certain phrase are meant to belittle you. You see that they are playing the Interrogator Control Drama and that this intention is out of fear which allows you to suspect there is an energy blockage at play. You may then formulate questions with the intention of dissolving this energy blockage. Because you understand their perspective and intention, you can formulate effective questions that will guide that other person towards focusing in on themselves to uncover whether or not there is an energy blockage there tainting their intentions and therefore tainting the flow.

A Regular will also realize that making statements when dealing with energy blockages generally only arouses more statements in the other person and that generally your statements are used as footholds for that other person to attack you with more statements or perhaps attack you with questions with the intent to drain your energy. A well crafted question from a Regular may not arouse the defenses that the energy blockage create in the other person, and so slowly the focus of the conversation may be guided towards the energy blockage without the other feeling as though "they are being helped". This is good because as soon as people recognize that "they are being helped" they also realize that they must have a problem, and many people on lower awareness levels do not like to be honest with themselves and admit that they do.

Ultimately, knowing ones own intentions allows them to be honest with themselves and see the truth behind their actions. In being honest with ones self, you can then be open and considerate enough to accept another persons perspective and empathize with their intentions to a far greater degree. Knowing anothers intentions will then allow you to see past and not get caught up in any negativity or fearfulness of their statements and allow you to focus your energy on the truth of their statements. It will allow you to listen on a level that will make their thoughts clearer to you than it is even to them. You can begin to understand that person better than they understand themselves. You can reflect their behavior off of yours and break the cycle of pointless fighting and begin to have real connections and progressive, rational, evolving conversations through the truth that will inevitably exist in it. A Regular understands that there is nearly always some level of truth in a statement. In knowing their intentions you can see their truth and allow that truth to move both of you beyond power struggles.

One question that helps clarify intention is "Why are you doing that? Why are you saying this?".

6.) Know the judgments you are making. Be fair,open minded and honest.

At this point a Regular would now have considered the intentions that are fueling 100% of the conversation. This not only gives them a clear idea of where the conversation is flowing and where it is hindered due to energy blockages, but it allows them the foresight to predict what will stagnate or enhance the flow so that it may evolve.

One aspect of a conversation that plays a great deal in guiding the flow based on this foresight, is judgments. A Regular understands that as a human being in the Realm of the Relative, it is impossible not to make judgments. Your human mind is based on them. Several of the current Regulars in the chatroom view judging as "bad" and negative. If they were to examine their intentions and reasons behind such a statement, they would realize that that statement in itself is a judgment. They are judging judging. A real Regular would understand that it is not the judging itself that is detrimental to the flow of energy, but the intentions behind the judging. Negative judgments based out of control dramas and energy blockages are what allow judgments to be perceived as negative.

Just as judgments can be imbued with negative intentions, they can also be positive and so a Regular does not shy away from the power of judgments but rather understands their true nature and utilizes them for the flow.

The difficult part is being honest with oneself about the nature of the judgments. This is where it is important to have practiced introspection through questioning ones own intentions until those intentions are clear and concise. Either they are out of love or fear. Born from higher being or energy blockages in the Ego. The faster you

train your mind to make the judgment of whether or not your intentions are pure and from love, the more capable you are of keeping up and inspecting the number of judgments your conscious mind is making. A great deal of people do not even realize the number of judgments they make in a single conversation, but a Regular will have developed such a strong sense of introspection through the Art of Questioning, that he/she will find it difficult not to ACT out of conscious intention. A Regular will understand how their patterns of energy will affect the other and understand what intentions/actions will result in that person. The Regular may then examine and question the intent behind those actions and predict which actions will then result from the other person and on and on and on as the Regular tries to tune into the different possibilities of flow and begins to use their tools to manifest the possibility with the highest energy level.

For example, at lower awareness levels, it may be easy to offend someone merely by choosing some generally offending expletives. A Regular, however, would not become upset or offended because they are centered in their own intentions and know that they are acting out of love and if not, they will know that there is an energy blockage they need to first off admit and accept, and then transcend. Because they either admit or know that their intention is positive, then they can reflect on the intentions of the other person and use the art of question to figure out the choice of the other persons words and the meaning behind them. Instead of getting angry, a Regular would become curious and ask the other person why perhaps they chose the words they did and ask how using these words better communicated what they wished to express in the flow of the conversation?

And so by knowing the judgments and intentions in the conversation (energy exchange) the Regular acknowledges his emotional responses but does not often become overwhelmed with them and if he/she does get overwhelmed, they admit it and are then able to focus on it because they are not afraid of their limitations. By staying centered and flowing with their emotions, Regulars stay focused, rational and intuitive which are all key to promoting higher energy levels and having progressive evolving flow. Overly emotional people are caught up in the drama of the conversation and not the truth. Because a Regular is able to judge themselves honestly, they are also capable of sharing that honesty with others as fairness and open-mindedness towards their energy blockages.

7.) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Know your expectations.

This motto has to do a lot with the open mindedness mentioned in section 6 about judgments. Judgments lead to expectations. When we realize the true nature of judgments and that they are natural, human and prone to mistakes, we can accept them and utilize them with our intentions.

However, when we begin to understand our intentions and judgments, it gives us the foresight to predict future outcomes of choices. This may set us up to expect certain outcomes. When we treat our judgments as if they are infallible, then we may begin to limit ourselves because as soon as we attach too much meaning our ego may get involved and believe that our judgments are never wrong. This sets up the expectation that we are always right and this is dangerous and limiting because subconsciously we become less open to the other possibilities that may show that our judgments were not entirely true, or only held partial truth. As stated in section 6, there is partial truth in almost everything and one needs an open mind to see this truth and not get distracted by the other information or get caught up in the drama of initial differences in opinion.

So it is crucial that we allow our truths to be tested so that they can be expanded through rationality and creativity. Once your expectations are too rigid, you are not as able to open up to new information and your intentions begin to shift from intending to find truth, to intending to show that your truths are always right and that there is no expansion or clarification necessary. With the intention to show that your truths are right, you have changed the focus of the flow of energy from the seeking of higher levels of truth/awareness, to yourself and your level of truth. In expecting to be always right, you will resist changing your truths even if this change is only an opportunity to expand those same truths to newer levels. This resistance to change manifests itself as an energy blockage as the flow of the conversation is limited to your level of awareness and so is inhibited to flowing more freely. Your expectations have limited the flow of the conversation, and even more so, it has limited your energy interaction with others so that you are also limiting them. Therefore, having strict expectations not only limits yourself and your intentions, but it also limits those people and things around you to your level. This is not "bad" if your level of truth and awareness is in fact, greater, but for those people whose awareness may be greater than yours (to which there surely is) then your level and expectations become the limiting factor, and if you are unwilling to change them, then you are blocking energy flow and are therefore exhibiting an energy blockage.

But the question becomes, "how do you know if your awareness level/energy level is higher or lower than any one elses?" This is a question avoided by many, as they feel it is loaded with ego. In fact, many of the current

Regulars feel that comparison of any sort between people is inherently wrong as they feel it is our limited ego trying to pump itself up off the shortcomings of others. This is definitely a concern and happens frequently, however, comparing of objects and people is simply another form of judgment. Since judgment is unavoidable in our human form, so is comparing (current Regulars would argue that meditation is a more spiritual state of mind that transcends our conscious comparisons, judgments and intentions yet really all it is is a way for our conscious mind to become more aware of our programming in our conscious mind so that our awareness level is greater when making these judgments and comparisons). Comparing can be used in a positive or negative way depending on what you value as a human being. Generally it is negative to take energy from another for ones own benefit and this is what most of the Regulars actually mean when they say to avoid comparing of people. However, comparing can also be used of positive intention. Comparing only serves as a means to make a choice on what that individual believes to be true.

It is not inappropriate or necessarily negative to make comparisons between awareness levels in individuals and doing so is really what sharing ones beliefs, thoughts and ideas is all about. To determine whose awareness level is higher, a Regular may ask several questions to get an impression of how much truth they can see and relate to in that other persons statements. (Not, Absolute Truth cannot be found in the Realm of the Relative, and so the best we may do to find truth is to follow in the foot steps of science and use the scientific method. To follow logical and rational reasoning). Not only this, but the Regular will examine the flow of this other person to also determine how spiritually open minded they are.

It may be true that one individual in the conversation is more aware about a certain aspect of reality than the other, but on another aspect, the other individual may be more aware. A Regular will realize this and through recognizing their own level of knowledge on a subject in comparison to another, will know when to flow from teacher position to student position. They will also recognize immediately when someone is on the same awareness level as they are.

However, in the Celestine Chat, this flow does not occur from teacher to student as fluidly and consistently as it could. This has to do with expectations. Expectations can trap an individual in a certain awareness level and prevent their awareness from growing. For example, expectations require energy to develop as they require much thought and preparation. When expectations are too high the chance for things to not work out as expected is much greater, all that attachment to the outcome of the expectation is experienced as an energy drain that makes them unstable. If ones expectations are not flexible and open enough, a person will be limited by constantly bouncing from expectation to expectation, living on a high ride if things go the way they planned, and sagging to a new low if they don't. Their energy level is not stable within themselves and they often feel like they aren't making any progress. The danger here, is that this person is easily deterred, easily manipulated and difficult to flow with.

When searching for truth and smooth flow, these are not things that help in the process. These limit one from increasing their awareness level until they break out of that cycle by becoming centered/aware of themselves and their inner world. This limitation comes from having ones expectations too high.

Expectations may also limit progress by trapping a person in a certain low expectation. If you expect someone to remain at a low awareness level for the rest of their life, then your actions will work towards manifesting this expectation and would then make it more difficult for that other person to break free and express their true potential around you.

Your expectations of others can put people into molds and stereotypes and subconsciously you may begin working towards putting them in that stereotype because your judgments would be much more likely to be based on what you expect to see, not what is actually there. Your judgments therefore become limited and your ability to see the full truth of what the other person is saying is lost as you cut yourself off from the multiple layers of meaning that the other person may be expressing to you. Instead, you see a single layer of meaning and truth, and it is the limited truth that you expect to see. You are trapped at this level of truth because you do not expect the best of that person and therefore do not give them the chance to reach you on a deeper level to which greater truths can be revealed. This happens when you set your expectations too low. You close doors and opportunities. Even if the other person is at a higher awareness level than you on a certain aspect, you will not be able to gain the insight and message they can share with you. You may miss out on the 7th Insight. You will not be able to engage the flow as strongly.

To get over these limitations, you my follow the motto "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worse." This motto is about balancing our expectations so that we may reduce the limitations and bring out the positives of having them. Like judgments and intentions, they can be used negatively, but also positively. In setting our expectations high, we allow for greater truths and levels of awareness to reach us as we know that such levels exist and we are open to them, but when they are set too high, we often invest energy in having them working out in a certain way and so we close our awareness to all the other ways it could have been. We close ourselves to all the other flows and so causes resistance. This resistance will hinder the flow because it limits your openness and the openness of others.

Instead, if you keep your expectations high, but balance them with an awareness of low expectations and outcomes, then your awareness level has expanded and you are much more open to the possibilities of everything turn out how you expect, and turnout out exactly opposite and then everything in between. You are even open to the possibilities that you cannot think about or formulate.

A Regular, although mentally prepared for the best and worst, also expects the unexpected and so does not limit themselves even within this expanded awareness of thinking about the best and worst. In being open to the best, worst, and beyond, one can accept their expectations and flow with them without the need to control. Control slows the flow. You can't control an infinite amount of possibilities since you are under the limitations of being a human being. Keep your expectations high so that your outlook on life is positive, energetic, hopeful and meaningful but understand that you are only 1 contributor of a reality that is co-created by many other people and things. There are things going on outside your awareness level and the best you can do is trust in the flow, change what you can, accept what you cannot and have the awareness to know the difference. This is why a Regular should stay neutral after a poor flowing conversation with someone so as to keep the doors open for that person to open up and expand their potential in the next conversation. Even though this conversation may not have flowed too well, a Regular does not make the judgment that the next conversation will be the same, but attempts it with the same vigor aware that it MAY turn out the same but works towards a higher flow.

A Regular does not limit the other person, and so does not GIVE UP on them. This is not the case with the current atmosphere in the Celestine Chat. If you exhibit a certain pattern of behavior, the current Regulars unconsciously trap an individual into a reputation and therefore limit that individuals behavior, and perception towards their potential. There may be good reason for the reputation, but this does not merit inflexible judgment, rather it should merit acceptance and honesty to move needed to transcend it rather than sustain it. If they treat you like you are the reputation, then they are putting their energy into manifesting it with you. Strengthening it. This limits your flow and therefore the energy you can contribute to the chatrooms flow as a whole.


8.) Recognize levels of truth. Understand absolute and relative truth.

Earlier in point 3 it was mentioned that there is truth in everything someone could possibly say. A natural question to this may follow: "How can this be?" In the chat many people, especially the current regulars, say that if they do not agree with you that it is okay because it is "your truth". And they leave it at that. Yes this a polite way to end the conversation at lower awareness levels, but there is also no real progress. No expansion on theirs or your ideas. If they agree to disagree with you, usually it is not with the intention to discover more truth, but with the intention of preserving their energy by not fully listening or internalizing your perspective.

They simply do not care, in other words for they prefer the security of their own beliefs over exploration of truth through the deepening of their spiritual experience.

It is true, however, that it is YOUR truth. More clearly, what you say is true to you at the current awareness level you are at, however, someone at a higher awareness level on the subject may see that the truth in your statements and perceptions is limited and can be expanded by clearing up some of the ideas that may be wrapped up in other intentions or have yet to be scrutinized with an open mind. A Regular should be able to see the truth and internalize it and compare it to their own truths to see there is good reason to accept it over their own.

A Regular is not afraid to change their beliefs and ideas if the reasons given are sufficient. If not, then the Regular will internalize and clarify the truth of that other persons ideas by understanding the common symbols and entities they share, and then adapting their (the Regulars) truth through the symbols and terms that the other person enjoys using. This not only shows the other person that the Regular has a fully understanding, or has atleast made serious attempts at understanding the other persons viewpoint and has expanded on that truth by pointing out inconsistencies in that other persons view point. By using that other persons terms to explain the Regular's greater truth, the other person has a greater chance of picking up on the truth that the Regular is pointing out. Perhaps the Regular has made a mistake, and if the other person points this out, then the Regular has no trouble in pondering their viewpoint again and changing it if the viewpoint of the other person holds more truth on that one particular aspect.

How can something hold "More truth"? Isn't it either true or not true? This is where levels of truth come into play because a statement is only true based on how well it relates and describes the situation/thing it is explaining.

If the statement describes the nature of the situation or thing perfectly with the ultimate awareness level, then that statement is said to be 100% true. However, since we currently do not have infinite awareness levels, we cannot know everything about a situation or object so as to have the infinite awareness level to express 100% truth (unless of course we merge with the Highest Being). A Regular, therefore, understands that any conscious mind of awareness below that of the Highest Being cannot be certain 100% of the truth of their statements and therefore is humbled and flexible in their own truths. Perhaps what someone says turns out to be 100% true. That person cannot be CERTAIN that it is true unless they knew everything about the universe, Reality and beyond, and this level of knowledge only exists at one level: the level of the infinite, the Realm of the Absolute, the state of the Highest Being. A Regular knows that human beings have awareness levels anchored in the Realm of the Relative, or the 3d Dimensional universe and so knows that our sense of truth is also anchored in this relativity.

And so truth is relative to the comparisons we make in trying to describe the actual state of how things are. This relativity allows for differing levels of truth, some lower, some higher. A higher level of truth can be recognized by comparing it and relating it to several other concepts and ideas that we hold to be true through other comparisons. The more consistently this single truth meshes with all these other truths, the more interlinked and supported it is and the more it is based in a higher awareness level as it takes into account more information about how things are.

For example, when scientists say that everything is made out of atoms, they believed it to have a very high degree of truth because it explained consistently without contradiction not just 1 or 2 or 3 physical phenomena, but many many other observed phenomena and concepts that held just as much truth (such that electrons existed). So scientists all across the world could not deny the good solid reasons for why it seemed to be true and so back in the lat 1900's, the scientists accepted the planetary type model of the atom as a high truth about the nature of how things are.

However, nowadays, humanity and science has increased its awareness level greatly and have realized the limits of that truth. The planetary model of the atom did not make as much sense when considering quantum effects and so a new statement was formed to explain an even higher level of truth behind the atom, and it came from a man name Schrodinger. Now since Schrodingers model of the atom explained and took into account not only all the things that the planetary model explained satisfactorily, but it also explained some of the reasons why it didn't make sense! And so we can say that Schrodinger model of the atom is based from a higher awareness level and therefore holds more truth. Scientists now accept Schrodingers model to have transcended the
other.

A truth can be tested by how well it relates to the rest of reality and the current awareness levels at that time. If one is curious and inspired and in awe of their life, the universe and reality, then they will keep asking questions and so prevent stagnation of awareness levels that therefore stagnate truth. Religion, as stated in the 2nd insight, at first raised awareness levels, yet as humankinds supraconsciousness awareness level caught up, the limits of the truths of Religions have begun to limit humankinds awareness level and so more and more people are waking up to the stagnant truth and questioning it so as to transcend it. This is how our levels of truth evolve and escape the danger of become disillusioned and filled with contradictory statements. It prevents truths from being built off of very limited truths. It prevents mankind from moving backward into lower awareness levels and so this is why it is crucial to have a spiritually open mind if we are to flow to higher and higher awareness levels so as to deepen our truths and therefore our spiritual experience.

On a more personal level, if a Regular recognizes in a conversation that another person is not considering their solid reasoning behind their level of truth, then they can suspect that this other person is holding onto their own ideas not for good reason, but because they have attached high expectations to them and so have become dependent on them to maintain a higher energy level and state of being. The Regular can then guide the flow of the conversation from the truth they were expressing, to the truth behind the other persons resistance to change. In this fashion, the Regular may begin to focus the flow on that other persons energy blockage so as to advance flow of the conversation. If that energy blockages dissolves, then the Regular will move to the truth again or flow into idle talk to replenish energy levels after investing so much in the energy blockages removal. In this manner, a Regulars intentions are always geared towards better flow and more powerful energy interactions. It does not matter the person the Regular speaks with, they dance the same dance, yet it is unique with each person as each person is at a different awareness level, expresses different truths, different energy blockages and different information.

Many people may begin to become aware that their truths begin to mesh more and more at higher and higher awareness levels. Some may at first become concerned as they feel like their individuality and uniqueness is being lost as their beliefs begin to conform to one ultimate system of truths. This is natural, as the Ego wishes to feel important through its individuality (atleast in western culture as this is how we are programmed over here), and others are concerned that openness and diversity will be lost allowing for a tyranny to control our minds and thoughts through this system. Yet, the first concern is due to the limitations of the Ego, and the second would not be a concern if everyone kept a spiritual open mind and remained curious and unafraid to ask honest thoughtful questions so as to transcend the lower and fear based intentions of those who wish to impose the control. But it is inevitable that we our truths begin to merge at any common awareness level because our energy levels and thoughts, and ideas are based off the same information patterns and therefore rise to similar ideas. It seems inevitable that all of our belief systems begin to merge and we all begin to express the same truths in a similar way because there can only be one system of truth to explain this oneness of all things.

Many are beginning to realize that science is guiding us to this point and many are beginning to realize that science is evolving along with religion into a true spirituality that encompasses the truths of both systems of belief as humankind evolves into higher and higher awareness levels. A Regular is not afraid of agreement but embraces the unity with an aware and open mind. Their intentions in a conversation are pivoted with this goal in mind but with the flexibility to know that it may not occur and that greater things may provide reason to accept something more beautiful if there is not beauty enough in that unification of spiritually open minded truths.

This ultimate system of truths is important to work towards and make a goal of ones life, but a true Regular should also understand that it is not necessarily the achievement of this goal that is most important, for the evolution towards this level of truth is inevitable either through life or death, and so cannot be avoided (or so it may appear do to the nature of individuality and unity). A Regular realizes that the PROCESS of raising ones awareness is as sacred, divine and meaningful as reaching the ultimate being and therefore naturally does not use others as a means to an end, but as ends in themselves. They realize that being limited in awareness may be the most divine thing about about us, as it is the only thing that causes the illusion of being separate from the whole. We express this limitation through being in the Realm of the Relative (3rd Dimension). In the Realm of the Relative, we must speak differently than if we were in the Realm of the Absolute. In the Realm of the Relative, our truths and words must be expressed in dualities, or expressed in comparisons between (illusory) separate objects.

Therefore it would be inaccurate to speak of wide spread generalities and use words like "all", "everything", "everyone", "nothing", "never", "only", "always" because these words are absolutist. They are designed for to be used when speaking about the Realm of the Absolute. When a Regular is using words online to speak with another, they should be aware and watching for the use of absolute terms when speaking about things in the Realm of the Relative. If these terms are used outside of the Realm of the Absolute without a strong sense of context, than the Regular may be strongly inclined to believe that the other persons level of truth is limited on this aspect and that their perceptions may be skewed or unquestioned. When using absolute terms to describe the Realm of the Relative it may actually limit our perception and is usually a good sign of when anothers, or the Regulars expectations are too rigid because they lack the awareness to put them into proper context. Being aware of the scope of truth in all statements will allow the flow to continue as it promotes clarity and honesty.

______________________________________________________________________________________

This is all for now. I m not particularly happy with the way the language turned out in this post. If this article appears too convoluted, I will post up example conversations to show the implementation of each section. I'm a bit exhausted. This turned out to be more a feat than I had assumed. Generating good flow takes quite a bit of consideration. I hope to hear some stimulating feedback if this resonates with anyone elses level of awareness.
_________________
Pessimists find difficulty in every opportunity. Optimists find opportunity in every difficulty.

[truth]

Hi MM2,

I have to admit that, although I only scanned the detail behind the guidelines, I like them and your post made sense, I believe your intention is in the words of this website itself: to take our spiritual experience to a deeper level.

Good luck,
Pat

[Theressa]

Hi MM2,

I like the guidelines. I would be happy to chat with you on a higher level. I've not been going to the chat room for long but, I will say they have been a source of support for me as have my friends here through some very rocky times. However, I take your point that not enough relation is made to the insights.

I have had some spiritual chats however.

I did get the impression they all knew each other and used it more like a msn board where many seem to catch up with each other.

I will say that since most of the chats are late at night for me, usually morning for those in the USA and Australia that I'd like some in my day time.

I do however, feel on the forum that we do try to support each other in living from a higher perspective but, maybe we should align it more with the Insights.

I must admit that I to am guilty of not knowing every insight word for word but, I do know about control dramas and connecting to the source.

I did notice no one goes in any of the other spaces in the celestine chat apart from the cove.

MM2 I think maybe you should start off some good topics in another area of the chat. Infact I'd be happy to join you. My only limit is that is that unless I am feeling up to it I can't chat late on in the evening UK time.

I think it is great that you have the courage to challenge the status quo. I do know how hard it is to break into a group. I also have felt and myself and others have spoken up when one or two men have criticised a woman for being too sensitive when I and others said "people should be allowed to be who they are and have growth faciliatated not put down and be the butt of jokes".

Anyway MM2 maybe Truth and myself and others might be able to arrange a mutual time to go on the chat room and start up a deep conversation.

What do you all think?

Love
Theressa

[truth]

Hi Both,

Theressa, that sounds like a good idea. I haven't ventured into chat before, but I'll have a look around and shout for help if I get stuck.

Thanks guys,
Pat

[Theressa]

Hi Pat,

Chat is a tool so we can speak about topics in real time.

So, we all need to decide on a time and day to meet up like we would if we met in a cafe and had a chat.

Love
Theressa

[Velarius]

I haven't been able to go on the chat for a little bit due to busyness but i was a regular there. As such i can say that sometimes the chat does get a little stuffy, but that most there do have a spiritual purpose for coming there, and oftentimes if asked, will gladly share stories relating to the insights.

Another important thing to keep in mind i think, speaking as someone who has felt the way you do before, is that people when speaking about the problems or successes in the life actually are talking about the insights because they relate the insights to what is going on. I made the mistake of thinking that they had to be spoken of in abstract terms, which is something i'm sure others have done before.

However, you are right people do get stuck in cliques there, they just need a kick in the pants now and then.
_________________
"The Tao is like a well:
used but never used up.
It is like the eternal void:
filled with infinite possibilities."
Tao Te Ching, 4

[MM2]

I would enjoy setting a new flow by having a new set of Regulars "dominate" the chatrooms flow so as to provide the necessary influx of energy and behavior patterns needed to change it. It is difficult to set a time, but I am usually in the Insights&Flow when I do have time. I am in the Mountain Central time here in Alberta Canada.

In some way I wish you would expand your statements a little Pat. In this thread and in the Mind, Body, Soul, Spirit thread you commented but without saying much lol.

I would like to comment on something very important that Velarius has said:

[Velarius]

I find your characterization of the regulars both to harsh and out of touch. You expect people who are having a conversation, to all of a sudden cater to you when you join. I know i have never joined and not gotten a large group of "hello", "how are you", or what drew you to "celestine vision."
_________________
"The Tao is like a well:
used but never used up.
It is like the eternal void:
filled with infinite possibilities."
Tao Te Ching, 4

[truth]

Hi MM2,

I can understand where you are coming from with your guidelines, and I do appreciate the spirit behind them. However, I've always shied away from too much detail, because although I'm sure it does work for some, personally it doesn't work for me. I'm a definite 'get energised and go with the flow' sort of girl... what will be, will be, if and when it is meant to be.

I know it might not be what you want to hear whilst you're on your quest to instil spirit into chat, but I know that the responsibility for getting the best out of all of my relationships lies squarely with me.

As soon as I complain about others not doing as I'd wish, I know that I've slipped into 'passing the buck' mode. Most often, that which I complained about reflected where my own fault lay. For example, I'd complain about someone being selfish and irresponsible when in fact it was me being selfish and shying away from something I knew I had to do, but didn't necessarily believe I could.

So, take it easy on yourself and start enjoying yourself for who you truly are... a good, kindhearted soul who wants to do their absolute best for everyone... you can't go far wrong there.

As to where the spirit lies... within you and all around you and as to the soul? Well scientists haven't yet explained away the 99% of empty space in every atom... that's right 99% of everything as we know it... I know, let's call it empty space! That's where I think our soul rests, awaiting to be sparked into life whenever our spirit is raised... Ah yes! Thank you for giving me the opportunity to raise my spirits!

Cheers for now,
Pat

[MM2]

ell hello Velarius!

I can certainly see where you are coming from. Your statements are short but from my awareness level contain a great deal of information to comment on. I hope you have the patience to hear what I have to say in return to your statements as I go through them one by one. Each one contains enough information for an entire conversation and I will show you the thought process that occurred in my mind as I read each one of your statements. What I hope to show is how I believe Regulars should flow with their thoughts and others at higher awareness levels:

Your first statement:

[Velarius]

I did indeed read your posts and i am deeply sorry that you feel that i have not. Also, i am sorry that you felt moved to post in such an arrogant fashion.

Additionally, you stated that i did not balance my criticisms with agreement with any of your prevoius "truths." This is simply not the case and i call you to read my first post more carefully. I do indeed state in that post that i agree that the "regulars" of the celestine chat do from time to time need to be reminded to be more congenial and welcoming to new-comers.

[one under god]

SO HOW DOES ONE BREAK INTO A CONVERSATION

especially if the topic is boring [or you cant get into it?]
do i go to a new page
or troll this topic away from the HEADING

i just want to KNOW what the general rule is
[or what is the etti-cute [eti-quite]EDICUT]

shouldnt the convo be on one page
THAT THE EDITOR can call a NEW topic
and DUPLICATE the post into its own topic [with a link back]

see if this was the chat room[and only you two were here
then i came in and said how about the new vice president nomenee eh
how does this proceed?

[Theressa]

Hi All,

I asked a number of people on chat tonight (UK time) if they use the other rooms and they said yes for specific chat topics. Each person is free to suggest a topic and ask others to join them.

I did feel and mention that I felt left out tonight once a twice. Mainly because people were on about a wedding? I wasn't sure about? I guess due to the nature of the chat room it can be hard especially when as tonight there was about 10 people, people were coming and going. However, I also found out about Goth's and that was very interesting and control dramas.

I think the whole thing behind the celestine series is that the right people are drawn together.

I am not sure what else to say.

Apart from that when people list long, long lists of guidelines it is hard to actually concentrate. I tend to switch off.

I am tired and so I am not sure how this is coming across. But, if you would like some of us to go and chat there then just arrange a time and a place with some on the forum and see if they are available is my suggestion.

Love
Theressa

[MM2]

Valarius.....I think I have to be the one saying sorry here!

I've been running myself silly too. Busy around here. So much so that I didn't realize that it was you I was already talking with before my last post. I'm not sure why it didn't click. I bet it was because my initial impression of being disappointed took up most of my attention. I spent a lot of my attention on trying to figure out exactly why I was feeling disappointed rather then who I was actually talking to!

So now several of the judgments and expectations I made are not as fair in that last post. I hope you saw a problem with my perspective as soon as you read the first paragraph:

[Guest]

i think i remember at the beginning of one of james redfield's books, the tenth insight i believe. he wrote something along the lines of his intention not being to make some kind of definition out of reality with the insights and things of that nature. i believe he said the purpose of writing the books with the insights is to help whoever reads them find their own truth to tell as things inevitably change, whether it lines up with the insights or not. with that in mind, i would not let another person's lack of energy make me miserable. i think it is important not to create aversion(or craving) towards someone else's lack of conciousness or energy. we can help out by offering advice, but if it doesn't go our way, then that is ok, because we have learned not to create aversion toward that.