Unifying faith, do we really want that?

[silverwing]

Hey,

I guess that the whole thing about being either jew, christian, buddhist, whatever, is just the path you follow to get to wherever it is we are going!

Although to be fair i think the whole label procedure is a bit overated.

We are all going to the same place anyway but it is just our paths that may be different! although i do think that everyone needs to wake up to this, the fact that there can be different paths! But so long as we all hold in mind that we are ultimately aiming to raise our vibrations! each religion says that they are doing what they do to return to their god! well surely this is the common ground in each of the religions!

Anyway i have talked enough for today!

much love

kev

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
_________________
Look to the light in every situation! Things seem so much brighter that way!

[Reverend Loush]

something i wanted to say about my last post too.........the very first christians were jews, before the gentiles were given access to the faith........Christ himself was a jew!



now back the topic at hand!



i don't know about that being the common ground.........what i do know is that as a teacher of mine once said "the point of any religion is to live right, and do right, to do good, and be good"! or as the universal life church says "do that which is right"!...........i think there in lies the common ground........we really all want the same things.........we want peace, and happiness, and love, the rights that are due to us, and the freedom to live in what we consider to be a correct manner...........to live a life that we can be proud of and feel we have acomplished some small something, so that when we transition and stand before God, we don't have to feel guilty or ashamed for the majority of our actions! i think it was best sumed up in the movie version of "the mists of avalon" morgain speaks to arthur twords the end to counsel him and give him strength for one last great battle........ he says"i have sinned" she says "we have all sinned, but are we going to let those sins drag us down as some priest would have it, or are we going to rise above them and do what we were put on this earth to do!?"...............i think that is it for me.....i want to learn from my mistakes and not repeat them, and yet be greatful for the lessons........i want to acomplish what my birth vision fortold i could acomplish, my spiritual path is allowing me to do that, and as a Christian i can allow for where other peoples paths afford them the same oppertunity! i serve and worship God because i love him, and i try and do this to the best of my ability, i don't always succeed but when i fall or fail so to speak, i get up and try again! i have met so many people from so many different paths, cultures, vocations, and religions........i have been blessed to have met so many devout seekers, who really wanted to live a good life, and fulfill their roles like i am trying too! because i have met so many wonderfully diverse, and sincere people, i can see the common ground between all of us much easier than most people of my faith! i am greatful for that! i celebrate that! and it is that, that gives me the strength to carry on sometimes, when i am feeling weak, or sad, or tired, disempowered, or loosing hope! i take strength from the knowing that God is here is this earth school process helping not only me but everyone through the remembering and the shifting!



blessed be!

L
_________________
Rev. Loush O'Raven

Blessed be most excellent!

[KK]

[quote=] ... if it isn't true then it isn't faith. It's a false belief. FAITH is ONLY when it's true... that's the definition. L[/quote]



If that is true then 6 billon people on this planet hold a false belief about god! The reason for saying so is because MOST people have faith in god, but do not know god.

Faith goes both ways. As a Christian my truth about god, will translate as a false belief in other systems, and the other way round. But even knowing that, will not change my perception of it.



But I sincerely thank you sister, for bringing the subject back to my original question. I also thank god for the blessed words of Rev. Loush O'Raven, who seems to write with the authority and acceptance needed for our current quest to happen.



?The noblest employment of the mind of man is

the study of the works of his creator?

--- Unto Thee I Grant



I for one, hope that the unification of all theologies isn't going to happen. I do not think it would be helpful at all. Simply because without differences we would loose all those different identities. Without differences we would not have examples as to what we can do better and learning would become obsolete.



In my understanding, Christ is our savior not because he is the Son of God (we all are), but because he showed us what we can/should do. By living his life the way he did, he gave us clear instructions to the ?how?.



A Buddhist or Hindu might accept Christ teachings, because the historical Buddha is not god (in any existing records, it is stressed, that he declared himself as nothing more than a teacher, who has found ?a? way to reality), neither are most Hindu deities, ?god?s?. Buddha?s are the equivalent of saints, and Hindu ?god?s? are by far and large representations of spirits, saints and common teachers whose teachings are remembered (the worship of a natural object is often seen only as a celebration of god's creation). Taoist gods in turn are largely ancestors, whose live/teachings are celebrated, by remembering them. For the luck of a specific word, they are called gods today, but no follower would ever consider them even remotely equal to ?GOD?.



No matter how long we strife to understand other peoples way of life, we will never get to the point where one would be able to say ?I understand/have the ?whole? and only truth?.



? Summum bonum? What we all should strife for instead, is not based on conversion, but acceptance of one and all there is in this world. If one is able to do that, we will learn the ?truth?, as we go along and still keep our identities without having to call ourselves anything other than what we are now.



Let me close for today with a traditional quote for a student who want to become an Iglulik Shaman (according to Rasmussen 1930);



?I come to you, because I want to see ?



Kurt

[Reverend Loush]

thank you kk for your kind words.........i just have to agree with you........to me it is not about everyone melding their identities.......it is about all the seperate identities peacfully co-existing and learning from eachother........in the tenth insight for example to the best of my remembering.........the world vision had one big temple with SEPERATE rooms for the different faiths as they worshiped side by side, but not together..........they weren't mixed.......they were not unified in religion but rather in the spirit of peaceful and equal spiritual evolution! at least that is how i remember the story.........it has been a while since i read, so i could be wrong about that.........but that is what i got from it............it was not about mixing up all the religions into one big religion but as i have stated, it is about the unity of spirit and mind, rather than religion! now that kind of unity i can go along with..........but i am me, and i have my own thoughts about things, and i hold to my religion..........this is just me and how i will always be.......ever changing and yet ever the same in many regaurds! i hope that we can all find the peace of God within ourselves, our lives, global society in general, and in eachother! i hope that we can always celebrate and appreciate what is the same in all of us and what our differences are!



bb

L
_________________
Rev. Loush O'Raven

Blessed be most excellent!

[KK]

Nice seeing someone writing about such a touchy subject in such an easy manner.



?The greatest blessing comes to us on the way to madness?

---Socrates---



Yes, I absolutely agree, I had the fortune of traveling a lot and hence being able to come in contact with a wealth of different customs. I found that I like a lot of things that where shown to me, and I even prefer to act on some ideas that are different from the instructions given in my/our (Christian) scriptures.



But even dough I might favor some of the ideas that are not in line with my basic faith. I would (and have) NEVER considered of abandoning my Christian heritage. I found, there is absolutely no need for that at all. Reason: "read the last two posts by Reverend Loush". To the contrary; I cannot understand, why so many people in the west today would convert to other belief-systems like Buddhism. Actually, I know WHY, but I do not understand why they would completely abandon their own heritage, when the basic message is quite close to their own existing truth.



We are not spearheading something new here, even the staunchest of institutions like the Vatican, lead by the late pope, has shown willingness to close the gap of differences between theologies. Unfortunately, most of his efforts and successes/setbacks where not made public. A few speeches sounded nice, but most of us today want more. I for one would like to see the people who represent all those theologies, to unite and find a common base from which we all can work. With that we would not have to hear ?either you are with us, or you are against us? ever again.



Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house,

Which have eyes to see and see not,

They have ears to hear and hear not.

---EZEKIEL 12:2



Recently there was a post about a new film/documentary called ?ONE?. Following the link given in the post, I spend an hour or two on the website. Basically, the crew asked the same 20 questions about life/theology/god, to a lot of people and was given access to some more prominent leaders of different doctrines. Judging by the positive/negative feedback this will be something interesting to see.



Anyone out there, who has seen it already? Any comments?



Blessed be the life we live in,

Kurt

[whiteraven]

[KK]

[/quote]god = he? What? Why does it have to be a he?[/quote]



What?s wrong with that?



He, She, It does it really matter? Duality is found in everything. There is no such thing as good without something bad.





Every male has a female side and the other way round.

Although in the womb of our mothers, we all start out as females some of us become males. javascript:emoticon('')

Wink



Point in case, one cannot exist without the other; as evidenced by your aggressive question marks (something that is usually a thing that guy?s do).javascript:emoticon('')

Twisted Evil



Reread CP, the codependence of male/female is explained to some extend there and can easily be extended to the subject on hand.



Without distinction, God resides in all of creation.

javascript:emoticon('')

Very Happy

If you are offended by the notion that most people address god as a male entity, why are you not extending the same effort to the devil,javascript:emoticon('')

Twisted Evil who according to my understanding was crafted from a female entity (earth goddess) and represents fertility?



Blessed be the life we live in,

Kurt

[Reverend Loush]

his church is on the earth......the church is all the people who beilieve in him according to sripture! the church's symbolic name is buelah or isreal, or in later times "beualah magdalina isreal".......beaulah means "your land is married"! the church is the bride of Christ. and the early christians even though most did not believe that Christ and mary magdaline were married used the magdaline as a symbol for the whole church because she was a close femal desciple of his, and because of her story as a repentent person who showed the very worst and best qualities of the human race like david in the old testament (there is no evidence however that she was a whore or necessarliy demon possesed....as the ancient word for spirit could have also meant an illness, a stigma, a vanity or pride, etc........there is also no real evidence to support claims that they were married). for any who don't know, the origional meaning of the word catholic is "church universal"! just some interesting info i thought i would share.....below is some more!

bb

L



and on the whole male /female thing.......God is neither male nor female but pure spirit with both masculine and feminine qualities! every man has an anima (a feminie side), and every female an animus (a masculine side)...........as kk wrote we are all female in the womb untill a certin time some of us change! now why did it offend you that she wrote "he"?.......in every language there are words that are either masculine or feminine..........the bible teaches that in the begining that "he" God created the universe......why does it say he? for many simple reasons.....first God set mankind over the earth as caretakers, but he wanted them to know that there was a higher authority! almost all the words in ancient hebrew that are about authority are more masculine......so he was telling people that he was the final authority.......that there was something above them! now he is also reffered to as father, but that does not negate his feminine side, his mother side...........the old and new tesatments have many names for mother God.....el-shaddai "the almighty many breasted one"......shekinnah "the holy/glory presence of God" which is a feminine word and often reffered to as she or mother.........than there is sophia "holy wisdom" which was an ancient name for the holy spirit by early christians! knoweldge is more masculine and wisdom more feminine lingustically speaking! indeed the early christians saw the holy spirit as the mother or feminine aspect of father God! .............God is with out gender but not with out qualities of gender! so you should not mind if someone says he when reffering to God! just my thoughts!



bb

L
_________________
Rev. Loush O'Raven

Blessed be most excellent!

[sister goshe]

Dear Reverend Loush,



I know that there are jewish people who believe in Christ called Msssianic Jews, but in my statement earlier I was talking about religions not ethnicities. I'm sorry there was some confusion.



What I don't understand- generally speaking of the differences in religions is: those who are not Christians or Jewish (since they believe in a Savior), how do they move past the guilt they must fee without a Savior? Perhaps they don't feel guilty because they don't know the law? But wouldn't they still know between right and wrong? I just think I would be so burdened by guilt and depressed wihtout the forgiveness the Savior offers me. Perhaps they receive a sense of forgiveness in some other way?



Also, I believe God is a He and He has a wife. She is our Heavenly Mother who is highly reverenced and protected by God. Our heavenly parents created the whole human family. Jesus Christ, is literally our brother. He however is the Only Begotten of the Father to this physical world annointed to take upon Him all of our sins. Jesus is God in every way but physical form. That is how when Jesus was baptized we could hear God's voice from heaven (because that's where He was) and see the Holy Ghost in the form of a dove (unspeakable powers)- three distinct beings. The Holy Ghost is a spiritual being that has unspeakable powers to touch all of our hearts in testimony of truth. This makes sense to me and makes reading the scriptures more understandable- for me...



I guess I'm just thinking there are some pretty prominent differences that may not be cleared up for all until Christ's return. Until then-I'm glad a tolerance and openmindedness previals at least on this website. It is interesting to learn about others beliefs.



Have a blessed day.
_________________
Sister Goshe

[Spiritwalker]

Actually, what will happen is that people will come into a new awareness that their lifelong religious beliefs will have to be shed like an old layer of skin a snake no longer needs. We will unify NOT our religious traditions, but under the newfound awareness that we were One from the very beginning and that we strayed into our own illlusive convictions that led us seemingly forever apart from eachother. But the goal, as is described in Redfield's works, is to unite as one SPIRITUALITY, as opposed to religion. The religions of old that still exist today are in themselves archaic (and I would argue obsolete). I think many of today's religious Empires are now beginning to break down already...the main reason being that they HAVE indeed become empires, most notably, of course, the vatican.

[sister goshe]

I am not Catholic myself, but I see that church evolving too. That's okay. Ultimately, I think all religious people, as Reverend Loush mentioned are trying to be good and do what's right. It would be foolish of any Church to think they know it all already and to be closed to the idea of being guided by God into further light and truth. My religion is not deceptive, or illusive to me. And I don't think of it as an Empire or archaic.



We/I beleive in current revelation from God. He answers my prayers today. He helps me with things that are happening in todays world. We have an organized and efficient worldwide welfare program. We have a church funding education program. There are others things too.



Many religions have organized systems of helping others around the world. There's nothing wrong with organization. There's nothing wrong with a group of individuals coming together to work toward a common righteous goal.



Many religious people are doing okay because they have had help. There are poor in this country and when they are humbled enough to ask for help, they turn to God and find a family of people willing to help them. A religious organization can do what an individual cannot. The suffering and struggling are lifted up to the point where they are self-reliant and in turn can help others.



Keep in mind the people in Christian Churches are there because they believe in Christ- they know they are sinners. They know they are imperfect. They never claim to be perfect- in fact they say they are nothing without Jesus Christ. They wish they could do more and feel terrible when they don't. Many want to do more but can't or don't know how. They cry to God for guidance and help. Many of them are as frustrated as you are with the suffering and evils of this world. Religion is not the problem.



I think the greater problem is those who think they don't need God. Those who are prideful. Those who don't feel guilt for making choices that hurt and opress others. Those who feel like they deserve something when they haven't worked for it. Those who destroy for profit and don't rebuild or re-plant. Those who work souly for themselves instead of others.



When religions unite spiritually there will still be worship and work to do. "Religion" will never end. (Look it up in the dictionary- I do not speak of secularity, but of work and worship.) We are blessed!
_________________
Sister Goshe

[Reverend Loush]

dear sister goshe...thanks for clearing that up! on God having a wife, well that is not how i see it as a trinitarian! i see God as being a father, creator, a holy spirit- a mother, and a reedemer- the Christ! i don't feel the need to seperate God from himself and give him a consort as many feel is necessary! to me God is whole unto himself having both a masculine and feminine side! i do not need a consort to be complete with myself, i am whole unto me, so i know that God can be also! i do recognize the holy spirit as the mother aspect of the one God! i think that people for the most part with or with out the law instinctivly know right from wrong for the most part! perhaps they sense that since God is one that he is the savior and therefore receive forgivness from him as we all do in our own ways! i have an intermediary which is Yashua, but the intermediary is to me God incarnate therefore God himself is the intermediary! so the intermediary ultamatly is just a symbolic thing and not an actual middle man! i think also that you are right that there are many things that will not be made clear till the new era when Christ returns! i think spirit walker has put it the best so far, and so i thank spirit walker! this is the way i see my truth of how things will progress! although i do not see any relgion as archaic or as not having value! rather i just think that everyones should keep their own and still have one spiritual global understanding of the true nature of reality! i think that the church is undergoing major evolution! thank you sister goshe, i think your last post gives me greater understanding of you, and it speaks my truth! i confess my sin to you of not knowing what to make of you sister goshe when you came on here, but i think i understand better now and i am truly sorry for the sin of judgement i placed on you, please forgive me? your wisdom on this thread shines bright!

bb

L
_________________
Rev. Loush O'Raven

Blessed be most excellent!

[sister goshe]

Rev Loush,



I guess I hadn't realized that you were being judgemental, ever. Sure I forgive you... Gosh, have I ever come off seeming judgemental?! I hope not- that is never my intention. I just like to share what I think I know- beat it to a pulp, see if it still makes sense after disecting it... anyways...



I hope you're not suggesting that everyone who is married is not whole on their own- that they feel their spouse "makes" them whole!? I certainly believe that God is whole in himself as well. And so am I and so can be every soul who is married or single. I believe that there are more blessings that are achieved in marriage, not less, and those individuals who are married also are entitled to all the blessings that anyone single can have. I think there is a progression we make: dependence, independence and interdependence in that order.



What is masculine but being a male- what is femine but being a female.

I know many emotional males and tough females- why does society consider being emotional a stereotypical "femine trait." I think a man can be emotional and completely 100% masculine. A woman can be tough or like sports and still be completely and 100% feminine.



You said: "the intermediary is to me God incarnate therefore God himself is the intermediary! so the intermediary ultamatly is just a symbolic thing and not an actual middle man!" Let me ask you this: when Jesus or Yashua was baptized, according to scriptures, God spoke from heaven. I don't understand why some religions think God be in heaven and on the earth as Jesus at the time time? And the holy ghost was separate at that time too- in the form of a dove. According to the scriptures, I gather that they are three separate beings. Maybe I'm missing something?



Rev. Loush- I respect you very much. I enjoy religious discussions and truly believve that everyone who accepts Christ as Savior will find forgiveness! Christ's atonement covers all His childrens' sins- every one of them! Praise to God! THank you for all of your posts for it has blessed my life very much- you have blessed my life! Thank you!



Sister Goshe
_________________
Sister Goshe

[Reverend Loush]

dear sister goshe..........let me explain further!

i am a trinitarian! meaning i believe that there is one God (God head) with three distinct persons! the father the son and the holy spirit! these three are sperate and yet compeletly one! it is a spiritual mystery that can not be completely explained on this plain! except to say that God is everywhere (omnipresent) and so can be in many places at once and in different forms! if God is every where than why can't God be in heaven and on earth and inbetween at the same time as a God, as a dove spirit, and as a God-man? we know that angels can be in multiple places at the same time, even some humans have experianced this! sometimes as bi-location and sometimes as energetic bi location or astral travel! why is it that we think that we can do something that God can't? does this explain a little better how i see it? no you never seemed judgemental, i just misunderstood what you were trying to get at before! but then i am only human! no i wasn't sugggesting that married people are not whole in themselves! but i know many people married and unmarried who think that their spouse "completes" them, and i think that notion is silly! i do not need to be married to be whole! if i am married that is great, but i don't have to be, to be whole! i am both masculine and feminine within myself! you asked why certin traits are given to certin genderesk qualities! well it stems from how the ancients saw things and used them lingustically! for instance the words wisdom and knoweldge! wisdom has always been a feminine word, while knowledge has always been a masculine word! logic of the mind has always been masculine, while feeling of the heart has always been feminine! at least as far as language is concerned! that is not to say that women are stupid or men can't feel, it is only to describe the different parts of ourselves and our psychies! just like in symbolism the left has always been feminine and the right masculine! it is something imbeded into the human conciousness in my experiance as a healer! if a clinet has issues on the right side i know they are masculine issues of power and responcibility, and on the left side they have issues of feminine qulaities, like acceptance and relationship issues! it is simply a way of distuinguishing different things because the human mind understands labels! that is why we have so many for so many different things! i hope that helps clarify! one can be masculine without being male! my mother and several of my tom boy friends are perfect examples of this, while i am not what one would call a mans man, i am indeed quite the oppisite! for a man i am pretty feminine in many respects!

bb

L
_________________
Rev. Loush O'Raven

Blessed be most excellent!

[wizanda]

Shalom