Agape and Oneness

[Onlyhuman0]

I realize that Agape is only something that can be achieved without the ego. We must seperate our identities of "who we are" and realize we are just who we are. The Agape is something that I am focusing on, however I realized that I have used this love with many people who I have met.

I like to watch people, especially at airports, what they are doing, where they are going. I try to put myself in their shoes..........of course, that is when they look up at me. I am a very curious person and curious to the background to life. I have come in and out of this conscious level, but this time I am really trying to stay tuned in. The oneness will always be something of a visual I see, but it isn't until you have a breakthrough moment, where you realize how powerful one person can be to an entire audience (public speaking), that oneness is truly real.

Of course, look at Leonardo Da Vinci's images of man. The one where he draws the anatomy of a human with a circle around it. This is the energy field that he realized humans have. We also have the ability to put forth a field of that energy and bring in whatever results we intend. Good or Bad.

The secret popped out to me while reading the 12th........and I am amazed at how influencial the Law of Attraction really is. It is how you use it and apply it to your life, where you can see how much power is behind it........or you!

[sister goshe]

I think it's exciting that you are exercising your extensions and finding it to be true! I love when sensitive people turn to look across a room because they can sense my energy extending towards them.

I completely understand how extending to a whole group of people is possible and I feel I've had a lot of practice doing that very thing recently. It takes a great deal of energy to keep it going for extended periods of time, and I fully realized God's grace in my life when addressing groups.

The most difficult part is addressing a group or reaching toward someone that isn't as lifted up yet. You'll find those willing to send back the energy will boost your energy and you'll both be amplified (9th Insight - Celestine Prophecy) while those who don't know how to do that yet, will eventually drain you, probably unconsciously.
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Sister Goshe

[marywright45]

It is hard to put into words the GRATITUDE feel for James Redfield for his bringing forth this book into public awareness.

I now have frame of reference for ALL the experiences that I have had. The only information that I was not aware of were the Apocalyptics.

I still do not know if that was fiction or reality. Do any of you know?

Thanks.

[sister goshe]

When I looked online, all I could find were people who studied Apocalyptic event portrayed in media, the study being called the study of Apocalyptics.

I didn't search long, but I didn't find anything that resembled a group of people that are purposefully trying to bring the Apocalypse about.

THere were a couple weird mud slinging type articles calling extreme environmentalists "Eco-Apocalyptics" and there was also a labeling of "financial-Apocalyptics." But I don't think these labels give the same connotation that Mr. Redfield suggests in his book.

I suggest Mr. Redfeild's Apocalyptics are part of his fictional writing.
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Sister Goshe

[SL]

Hi,

yes the Apocalyptic group in the book is fictional.

I appreciate what onlyhuman is saying in his post, as well as marywright and sistergoshe.

For myself, these issues you all have addressed were easier to experience and stay conscious of when I connected the dot from my own experience in learning why I should be grateful for everything in my own life to everything else. At some point after that insight, I recognized that if this was true for me in my life, then I had to find a way inside to feel that way about everything I observe in the world around me. That understanding then caused me to look at my own opinions about what goes on externally in our society collectively. I found that if I held on to my opinions, then my feelings of gratitude were difficult, if not impossible to maintain.

Human experience as a totality is difficult to grasp for any individual. We, particularly in western society, are kind of culturally ingrained to think we should know 'why' things are the way they are. This is often a huge distraction from the relatively simple exercise of simply appreciating our experiences as individuals and as a society.

In most things that we could discuss or have feelings about, particularly our relationships with one another, the why is not as important for people as much as the simple, fundamental and loving acknowledgement that a situation is what it is. Why any situation causes pain or suffering is always rooted in dualistic thinking (old paradigm) as opposed to the unity consciousness (new paradigm) James writes and speaks about.

If all of our travails and troubles started from a perspective of separation, the resolution then is logically to practice seeing from the perspective of Oneness.

I have written these paragraphs to suggest that Agape, as onlyhuman is speaking about it, may be easier to achieve through using a starting place of accepting Oneness as reality, and finding the thread to how things are, rather than trying to deconstruct one's ego before seeing the Oneness. For some, using one orientation may be easier than another.

However, if all things are 'One' and therefore relatively simple, it seems, and feels, easier to me to start from the simple perspective and see how conflict ensues as one diverges from the simple, rather than to start at this chaotic and convoluted state the world is currently in as the result of dualistic thinking, and reverse-engineering back to Oneness.

It's been my experience in interacting with others that my energy is not so much something that I have to maintain or 'keep up' but simply another manifestation of interaction. People with whom I feel resonance, resonate with me. I AM, YOU ARE, IT IS.... What we experience together then is what it is. If I fall out of resonance with someone, I must faithfully and honestly look at where one, or both parties involved have diverged from the Unity recognition of one another. Usually, the simplest most loving perspective in that kind of situation is to simply accept that we are both moving on to our next wave. There is everything to be grateful for, and we can easily acknowledge all that we observe as a part of the larger beautiful Whole that we are a part of.

This will set one upon that path of synchronistic flow James speaks about, which I am pretty sure is the best way to go through the coming period of time.

I hope that makes sense to you, it feels clear to me but I'm not sure if that works for others.

I appreciate all of you very much and look forward to more sharing.

Namaste,
Steve

[Onlyhuman0]

Steve has a great point! It is easier to experience Agape, when you approach it in a sense of a simple Oneness. I feel that it is easy for people to try to make sense of many of the insights and become lost in what it is truly saying.

If you go back to the original third insight, Matter of Energy, and focus on trying to see that everything around us is made of this same energy. Then it may become easier to understand that everything is the same thing.......or one thing. Leibnez, a great philosopher actually spoke on this when he said everything is made up of monads, or little balls of energy. Plato also referred to this with his dual realm theory of forms, or mind and body.

We are all made up of matter, including everything that takes up space. within that matter is the glue, or the spirit, or energy that keeps it all together. When breaking it down to the simple, than it is easier to understand what exactly Oneness is. For example, when you see a picture of Earth from space, it appears to be glowing. It is also a big ball of energy, that is made up of matter, that also takes up space. We are all a part of that big ball we call Earth.

On the idea of the Apocalyptics, I feel it is a state of mind. I actually related to this piece of the 12th insight very much. As a young child, I had always feared "the end times", so much that I would research prophecies like Notrodaumus to validate my thinking. I was only about 9 when I had these thoughts. As I got older and realized how extreme they were, especially sense I had not encountered "the end", than I begin to seek out a more spiritual view of the world.

Today, I see the bad things on the news; huge disasters, middle eastern conflict, political battles and civil unrest, which is what I looked for as a child to validate my thinking. Now, after reading the insights, I still feel an end is coming, but in a much spiritual and subconscious kind of way. It is very liberating that my thoughts were a decade behind, but they are so much more pure and alert now.

Apocalyptics do exist, just in the mind. There are many people in the world who are already ready to give up. They see it is inevidable, so they begin to create dramas to make sure that this comes about. If too many people focus on the negative, than the results will be just that, negative. however, if the prophesy is applied to this, than there will be a much more positive outlook to how "the end" of an unconscious time will create a much more peaceful world.

Thank you for all that have replied, I appreciate everyone's input! We are truly the start of something much bigger than we realize. We will change much of the unrest that is around us. There is only Oneness.....

Peace,
Onlyhuman0

[eve]

Hi, staying connected to a group of people who are aware an think in a likeminded, is a way to remain aware. Sadly, very easily do we find that we drift, become complacent, I was once part of a group that met once a week for years, we would join together and by remaining focused, we create an energy of love that we would send out to the world. Sometimes it was as if we were all caught up in a kind of vortex. It was pretty special, after we would talk excitedly, hugging, full of love for what we had achieved.Funny enough the minute you give recognition or allow ego to take over it would stop.[/b] I firmly believe in this light connection and the ability to send loving energy to others, I also think that if aenough people joined in, we could change the world people veiw of things. eve

[sister goshe]

Wow- I see now what this is about - how people are giving up and these are "mental" apocalyptics; people who have given up. I see it everywhere I go...

people who don't care about saving the planet, people who don't care about fighting the odds... it's a hard fight and often ends up with consequences that hurt the whistleblower - it makes sense that people are giving up. I just never recognized this as problematic in itself. Sheesh, I'm a little freaked out now.

Eve, I appreciate it very much that you shared your story of your loving group. It gives me hope. I'm also grateful that you mentioned ego. I've come up against that several times - I find when ego gets involved people tend to take offense or feel offended - like your speaking about them, not the problem in general. People have a hard time separating themselves from the negative acts- they think the things they do define them.

I love this site for the thinking it inspires in me! I love you all!
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Sister Goshe

[SL]

Hi Sistergoshe,

I hear ya!

I think when we look around the world we truly can see what appears to be, and may in actuality be, people giving up. I would point out however, that another perspective on this is to 'Let go and let God'. What would that look like from one unique situation to the next?

I think this idea is difficult to swallow initially. We receieve 'insights' that seem to indicate some thing or other that we should be doing. And since it is all the same 'truth' out there that we are shifting into, our 'habit' is to think we should all do the same things physically on the Earth. (be green find honest politicians be less material be kind to cows cats dogs and dodos etc etc)

As individuals however, this may or may not be true. I believe an hour or so ago I read a post from you (I hope I'm not mis-remembering who said it) that you had decided to quit your job because you didn't feel like you could be authentic within it and in fact were encouraged by the environment in your workplace to lie. On the surface, from what you've shared, I would agree you should 'do' that. But when I say it, I mean I feel that you, as well as everyone here now, should find that specific, individualistic way to be 'clean' within any situation humans find themselves, to find our own way to live with and from a place of integrity.

How can we 'let go' when there is so much that we are responsible for and can influence differently now that our perception has shifted?

There are so many occupations and reasons for these occupations. Our whole culture and infrastructure and perceptions have been tainted with a dualistic perception of life. All of these institutions have at their root that idea that God is 'out there' and this is, of course, where trouble starts, where manipulation begins, where desires create suffering. If we were to collectively walk away from it, where would we go, what would we do, how would abandoning the conflict change things??

I don't know! But I think that is what we came here to find out!

What I've come to believe based on personal experience is not that we - you and you and me - have to figure out how to act like 'better' people in order for the collective reality to shift. I believe that we are challenged with the idea that we have to shift as individuals in how we perceive (and therefore respond) and then this action taken as individuals will change the collective reality.

If we as individuals really understood that, we would no longer have a reason to 'fix' anything external to ourselves. Our personal agendas, both selfish and service oriented ones, would simply vanish. The details of our daily life when we live in that perception are not nearly as important then as our perceptions of what it is we do with our time. The external then will revise itself as that growing level of individual experience shifts the collective reality.

This is subtle stuff and requires some mental discipline to avoid self-sabotage within that process. Habit, in behavior but more importantly in thought patterns is the reason constant vigilance within one's own self is recommended so often in spiritual sources of information. It's like.... who sticks your foot in your mouth? It's usually you who says the wrong thing isn't it? No one forces us to say what we speak. We do it ourselves don't we? This is even more emphatically true when it comes to the conversation inside our head, isn't it? Thoughts come and go and no, I do not believe that every thought that pops into my head is 'mine'. There is unbelievable amount of information flying around our head all of the time (TV, radio, cell phones, satellites etc). There are probably uncountable numbers of non-physical beings flying around sharing their own thoughts. It seems absurd to consider that we are energetic beings of light and that we wouldn't be influenced by the waves of light floating around us. The stuff that pops into my head is clearly not always imaginable by me. My imagination is not that great. But (!) what I DO with my thoughts, how I allow them to influence me is where my true free will is expressed.

If we are truly here to be who we really are inside then we cannot afford to be permissive within our own mind if we are sincere in our desire to affect the larger reality... if we truly desire to share our Light... we cannot dim it by condoning or supporting dualistic patterns, internally or externally, no matter how comfortable or common sensical they may be in a dualistic world.

How any one person can or should do that is totally an individual experience and there is no one correct way to do it.

I'll stop, I hope this wasn't this wasn't simply a tangent compared to the rest of the thread for you. Thanks to everyone for being a part.

Peace,
Steve

[eve]

Hi Steve & SisterGoshe,
Its amazing how much goes on in a couple of days. Ideas that come to mind and with me wanting desperately to make the ideas come to fruition. For years and years now I have been trying my very best to bring people into awareness about travelling in higher cosciousness and the idea that once people begin to live in this higher state then we as a collective can affect a change the world veiw of things. I have approached other practitioners, i.e other healers,shamans, teachers. (I am an all rounder), What I have found is that there is such a thing as spiritual snobbery. that a lot of the time practitioners in this area will not work together in unison in case they might loose somehow. As a practitioner I have always believed that the universe has given me gifts, these gifts are not meant for me to hord away, they are meant to be shared. Passed on. a giving thing, I have been critisized very widely for this, It has been frustating at times, but at other times it has been joyful too. Now getting back to the piont, tas I mentioned I have been passing on for some time now. My latest idea is that I want to hold a forum, a conferance, that would bring together practitioners an anyone who is serious about affecting mindful change in this world. to discuss world affairs and how we can help I am excited, it is a daunting task, my goal is unite groups of people who travel in a state of awareness in order to affect change through conscious thought. Maybe I am not getting it across clearly, Maybe my words sound too far out there, sorry it is the philosopher l in me.( I have been one since I was born, always believing there was so much mre that I couldnt see) Anyway I have been trying to round up some very local practitioners to help me get going. But after a few minutes I realised that this was too big for them, they would not be prepared to help me, they would not moove from their safety zone. Or is that they are afraid of what they cannot see. Past experience tells me this is the problem I will face. However I feel that it will happen, that those who will be helping me will show when I need them.

Plato wrote once about a person who was in a cave chained and bound facing the back wall of the cave for years. At night a fire was lit in front of the cave and people passed by throwing a shadow on the wall that that the prisoners were facing. when the prisoners were finally released they could not believe and could not cope with what they were seeing in the real world. For them the shadows on the cave wall had become their reality.

This is what I feel is the problem, people are so use to the shadows of our existence that they can no longer percieve reality. I cannot wait to hear from you.
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E.Vermazen

[eve]

Hi again just a note, the conference is to try and get practitioners together not by internet but in person. I wasnt sure if I manged to make this clear. eve
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E.Vermazen

[eve]

Hi its me yet again, bit like a dog with a bone at the moment. Any way I was playing in my garden with my three beautiful dogs, thunking how beautiful ever ything looks after the floods this week andd it awned on me about being agape. Many many years ago when I began my journey of awakening and after a long period of study and self development, I was worn out by the immense amount of mental work I had been putting in. Wondering what would come of it all. I was walking along a track that has a lovely river on one side and hills and tall trees on the other, just enjoying my self really. thinking how lovely and how lucky I was to be able to live in such a space. For months I had been trying to feel everything, sharpen my awareness of everthing around me. I guess this day I wasnt trying, just enjoying and then it began happening, things seemed to glow, everything was brighter, the sound of the birds louder, individual, my body tingled with the energy I was feeling all around me. I felt totally alive, beautiful, there was a sense of joy as I made my connection, not just in my mind but in reality. I told my mentor what had happened, that it was wonderful, I wanted to always be in that space. He said I had self actualised. Agape to me is seeing things beyond what we see before us. I am glad I played in the garden today. Its been a great day. eve
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E.Vermazen

[SL]

Hi Eve,

Those are beautiful posts. I appreciate your sharing your thoughts and experience with us. I liked what you said about not trying and then it happening. I am reminded of the line from Star Wars from Yoda, "Do, or do not, there is no try." I think that often, at least in western culture, even 'do' is an aspect of trying rather than simply being and appreciating the experience whatever it is.
I would be interested in speaking with you about your ideas for a conference. Feel free to write me personally at steve@eggonalimb.net and let's see if we can sync up our ideas.

Namaste,
Steve

[sister goshe]

Steve, I've recently been infected by the controversy between giving up and "let go and let God." As the person making the choice, the difference is profound. But as an observer, without input on the intend of the other person, I imagine it would be impossible to know which path has been taken.

I've worked with others in our poverty stricken school district and I know some of them were complacently giving up. They told me. It was just a job and they did only what they had to. I've talked to a number of people who tell me they just don't care anymore.

On the other hand, I've heard a wide array of individuals experience beautiful things because they let go and let God. There are extremes of this behavior that I have issue with... because I think God needs us to make some effort... to reach out to Him. I don't think God wants us to be lazy. I think now as I reflect the key different is in what the person expects...

Grace is what God gives after we make the effort to do all we can do, it is dependent on faith - the belief in something that is not seen but is true.

Alas, from an outsider these would probably LOOK the same... they would feel different though... one would be a dying the other a living expectancy.

The Secret of Shambala (my favorite) tackles this idea of desire... you can't expect someone to behave a certain way with your prayer fields, you can only send them the energy to rise up and then they make the best decision for themselves. That way you're not manipulating.

[SL]

Dear SisterGoshe,

I really appreciate what you've shared about your process the last few days on the forum. I think what you're saying is beautiful and honest and truly reflective of what we all deal with. I'd appreciate it if you could feel the love in what I say in this comment. This is the best response I can offer you and I would hope that you feel it is coming from a friend. I've been sitting here all afternoon even though I've really got some stuff to do. But it seemed like I should.

You asked me a question and I think if I can start from there I can ramble thru the other stuff we're talking about.

"Dualistic world... ? Are you referring to an internal and external perception?"

One example of what I would call 'dualistic' is this sort of statement, "God needs us to make some effort... to reach out to Him."

I do understand a lot of people might have difficulties with this idea being 'wrong', but from what we observe SisterGoshe, we know this can't be true. To me, there is Intent being expressed, in my life, your life and in the larger world. I think it is clear there is. This is, after all, the significance behind synchronicity. When a person 'gets' that about synchronicity, that next, most logical, connecting thought should be to recognize that what we've known is not the way it is. We have in fact been taught pretty much the opposite or inverse or converse or however you want to think about it. But not everyone goes there or feels this is correct, instead they will deal with sync the way they do reruns on TV. "There it is again!" they say, and never really draw any conclusions from the experience of synchronicity, thereby missing the clue offered by that higher Intent.

But if that is true - that things are not as we've been told nor have they been built in alignment with what is - everything about our behavior and rationale for it has to be re-thought, un-thought and newly-thought. And in the rapidly altering world we live in now, an individual who is thinking along these lines will often come to the realization that..."I have no control over anything."

There is a dynamic going on that is huge and no system we've ever been exposed to physically can resolve the issues before us in our society or reveal to us all of the influences upon the events going on now. We don't know how to get along well enough to get our act together, nor do we have enough information to even know what is going on, with other people but also when it comes to the Earth, especially.

If we were to align our conscious focus then with what we do know from experience and observation - that the universe is reflective as well as responsive, that everywhere we look we are seeing the same substance on a quantum level, that we are connected and part of everything we observe, that it is our own interpretations that are informing our minds - we would serve that Divine Intent best by no longer resisting the flow an individual perspective is experiencing.

Let go and let God, in other words.

I think the statement is about a person's resistance. Sometimes we resist the flow with an emotional attachment to another, or to an idea. Sometimes it is an intellectual attachment to a perceived 'fact'. Sometimes it is the ache for intimacy that resists the larger flow. If the only place for you to find God is within you, how can we be distracted by what is going on in Yemen or any other place in the world? If God is in you and you are supposed to love God, how can you not love the warmongers as well as the rebels... because they are, after all, made just like you, and therefore connected to you, part of you, in fact... you.

We have to recognize that some people are going to choose a dark path, a dark conclusion. There is no way, as you pointed out, to know why that could be. God's desire for all of experience maybe... but who would know? That larger Intent is that "I" should end up happy and "that dark guy" should dissolve into nothing? But, if I am him and he is me, who cares? I do know that if I let this issue bug me, get busy with it and let it keep me from letting go and letting God, the peace goes away, the stress level rises etc, etc.

I guess that's pretty out there for some people. Too extreme a conclusion to make. Not enough of an argument to let go of childhood upbringing. But this stuff I'm saying here and have said in pretty much every post I've put up on the forum is I think the underlying idea of the CP books. And it's a way forward to really being in step with the larger process we are a part of. It's the only idea that I personally cannot criticize. It's been my motivation to offer this perspective from one moment to the next because it is also the only idea I've ever found that gives me peace about everything, both inner and outer.

When I've heard arguments that God is 'out there' and that there is evil that must be defeated, well... to me, those arguments illustrate someone who is missing the point of the idea being disagreed with. The really interesting thing is that since it is a matter of perception, those who do disagree truly and sincerely can be 'right' in their own heads and live on. But if what is 'correct' in someone's head puts them on a path towards a brick wall, and you are there as an observer and experiencer honoring their reality, your next best action should be... what? To intervene in the expression of someone else's personal choice? Or perhaps to allow them the result of those choices and honor, admire and be grateful for the beauty in that as much as the beauty in someone who has chosen to live a life in peace. And this is the tricky part, because look at all the painful choices being made, hardly any of which we have any influence over.

One idea I've always liked is that if there is a bigger thing going on, then maybe there is a reason so many of us feel Earth is special - maybe she is. And if that was so, then maybe there are 7 billion people in the universe who wanted to be here at this moment in the Earth's history so sincerely that they would be willing to live from a dark perspective while here, as an energetic balance, as service, just to be here and to take part. Doesn't that kind of blow away our conceptions about who or what is good/evil?

A thing I've learned through relationships and work experiences and other stuff is this: whatever I thought I was doing in any situation, when I got out of it, I realized I was doing something else.

Wouldn't you agree that that will most certainly be our experience when we get outta here? I mean can't you already feel the feeling of... oh, I get it!

I think we have great reason to be happy and excited and hopeful and many, many reasons to appreciate not just the nice stuff and people we've known, but all of the not-so-nice stuff and people we've known.

I really am so grateful to all of you who participate here on the forum. I think, if you've been positively impacted by James' website, forum, and the chatroom that used to be, you should let him know your appreciation. Give others who aren't following this thread the same suggestion. I have been honored to witness the love and compassion Kelly brings to the website and to her, we should also be grateful. The entire web site has been blessed and a safe, clean, supportive example of soul family. It is one of those minor miracles having major impacts through the internet and I feel fortunate to have had any part.

Much, much Love,
Steve